offline Tansur Hero The Trend
Tuesday 16/04/2013, 17:39

Hey, I was just thumbing through my piranas collection and was staring at ulrich. Then i fought a battle against a person playing nightmare. Remind me again why the only dr in piranas is perma banned, while nightmare has three unbanned dr? Sure not many people would use two of them in ELO, but they still exist as options. I'm not bitching, I'm just curious, as it occurs to me I never really knew the original argument.

offline wasteroftime Titan Open Casket
Wednesday 17/04/2013, 03:59

Ulrich deserves that ban.... in the same way that ratannah deserves the ban. both strong cards but not OP. However they both make their clans just a bit too good.

offline WMDuessel Guru Wise Men Distracted
Wednesday 17/04/2013, 04:44

Ratanah is slightly OP in my opinion, but I digress. Ulrich is in the same boat as Arno, Yookie, Arkn, Lea etc. in that these cards aren't extremely overpowered like other bans (Shakra, Emeth, Shann, Spyke etc.) but are essential in building certain decks. These bans limit the utility of the clans they belong to. Nightmare was never a solid mono option to begin with, but it's great with half decks even with the utility ban of Azel. On the same page, Piranas were easy as heck to play with in mono when Ulrich was free, but now it takes a bit of skill considering you lack DR. There's also an option to splash a DR like Uranus or Spiaghi, but you lose some power on support cards. Good tradeoff to weaken an overpowered and abused clan.

offline Sylneiros Imperator Gorgeous light
Thursday 18/04/2013, 04:22

I'm not sure but here is why I think he's banned: Piranas are a heavy pill manipulation clan which enables them to win 3 rounds out of 4. Now if you consider that you win 3 rounds and DR one you pretty much have a guaranteed win.

offline UM_AaaBattery Moderator URBAN MADNESS
Thursday 18/04/2013, 11:04

Piranas are a good clan with good pillz manipulation. A Dr like Ulrich just made them a bit too powerful.

offline hashburki Guru REIGN OF THE SUPREMES
Friday 19/04/2013, 00:12

I don't agree. Against clans like FPC La junta Skeelz Freaks etc there is too much of a power deficit. Many times Piranas are left helpless against cards like Ongh Dorian Beeboy Michael where a DR is the only answer Piranas don't have any. Not only that the clan is also devoid of a solid non-conditional SOA.

e.g lets compare La Junta vs Piranas card for card.
Isatis vs colerige
Wyre vs Buba
Thormund vs Puff
Bryan vs Kristin
Laura vs Cyan
Gatline / Brianna vs Raeth
Milena vs Morgane
Pilzken vs Selma
Sabia vs (oops no Dr for Piranas)
Dugan vs (oops no Dr for Piranas)
And then Theres Raven

Piranas even pale in comparison with Junkz the other heavy pills manip clan, and even they get to have DRs. And don't let me start talking about Skeelz they just simply humiliate Piranas.

Even though i agree Ulrich being OP could be debatable (i don't agree though). But there certainly should be no denying that Piranas do need a DR.

offline J-Nug Hero  
Friday 19/04/2013, 00:53

La junta and piranas aren't comparable because they have little to nothing un common

offline RitzMalheur Imperator  
Friday 19/04/2013, 01:07

I agree that Pirana sorely lack SoA (Confidence and Courage on mediocre cards and a pathetic 2* don't count), but pointing to strong cards from other clans is the wrong way to go about showing why a DR is needed. Pirana are about controlling pillz. Imagine it as a more proactive form of DR, where instead of letting them 2-pill a win and get 1 damage past in a round you played Andsom or Sheryl and in the next round they no longer have enough pillz to stop your Lizbeth from KOing.

Piranas getting a DR would be useful, and would foster more play with them alike to with other clans (olding etc.). Needing? That's too much, and assumes that every clan and round is played the same way.

The Pirana bonus neuters a lot of clans and strategies. I think it's more than enough of a positive to balance out the slight ability/stat differences (ignoring how Pirana has some really excellent abilities), which are all completely subjective anyway due to the random nature of each hand. It's not even possible to say that La Junta are better than Pirana when the difference of one card often turns the game one way or the other (often for me that is them having Raven or me having Lizbeth).

If anything, all your direct impractical comparisons prove is that La Junta has too much available to them. Give Raven or Milena a DT minus like Bonnie LD, because if an opponent has both it's like dodging landmines to just not lose, even with SoB removing Raven's OHKOability.

offline WMDuessel Guru Wise Men Distracted
Friday 19/04/2013, 11:09

The problem with giving Piranas/Nightmare an SoA or giving GHeist/Roots a SoB is that they become an "All-Stop" this is arguably the best ability and bonus combination available (except maybe Support: Attack + 5 and -12 Opp. Attack, Min. smiley and cards like this are inherently good (Glorf, Leviatonn) or plain out broken (Shakra) because they force the opponent to save their cards with high base power, and they can punish playing an otherwise good card like Tula, or Oscar. I think Buba is perfectly balanced, no need for another broken All-Stop.

Piranas do not need a DR IMO, in fact I would love for them to never get another DR ever. Sorry Piranas fans.

available Thoazol Moderator Wise Men Distracted
Friday 19/04/2013, 12:01

I'd like to see them get a Hattori clone. Just so it would be virtually unusable in Elo but would be enough to get people to stop whining about Piranas lacking a Elolegit DR.

offline fantasyfreakvi Titan United Army
Saturday 20/04/2013, 21:39

I agree that the Piranas need at least one unbanned DR card. Maybe something like 4/3, -3 Damage min. 3? The actual stats don't matter as long as they're low, but I feel like a DR min of 3 should help to not make the Pirana DR too overpowered.

Also, does anyone else want the Piranas to have a Glorg clone?

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