Hey guys so I will just start us off. I dont get how lizbeth is on top of the charts??? I mean for 1 less damage, you get lulabee, which is FAR more stable than lizbeth. I know, different clans, but Ulu is not that bad by themselves. + there are many replacements, and lizbeth is what, like 60k? this is ridiculous.
I think Dorian is quite borderline as well, uppers can still do pretty well without him. Herman, hefty, even lady are all replacements for dorian, i mean i know he is strong against SoA, but thats it!. Herman is actually more threatening than dorian in many matchups minus gheist/roots.
Montana is dead against gheist @yuri.... all stars is pretty screwed too (well not EXTREMELY screwed but certainly not uppers hand). uppers is pretty bad against gheist too without dorian....
now that the new release is out,
i think stompah may be seeing some bans some time soon.... WAY too powerful wow why did they release this card.
In what sense is are all stars screwed against gheist? assuming you're using them in half deck, and you have one of the more common halfs (jessie marina saki karen) in what way do any 2 of those lose to ghest? they ruin gheist's day, plain and simple. of them only jessie would be considered to rely on her ability, and even then the loss of it knocks her down to an average 2* damage. if you want to beat gheist, bring all stars, not the other way around.
"'The round-winning advantage doesn't matter too much at that point, because a good hit from a SoA clan character can be worth two hits from Sakrohm, Montana, or Uppers. '
Thank you for your reply, but finally, you got yourself into a paradox, back to the topic-Rolph
If you don't care about Gheist's round-winning disadvantage, it makes no sense to sacrifice damage for power manipulation."
Not quite... You should look at what I'm saying in context instead of isolating it. SoA clan's round-winning disadvantage doesn't keep them from having the upper hand in that scenario. However, giving them a strong round winner causes the already relatively small disadvantage to be further diminished. The attack manip clan's chance of being able to pull off a 3-round victory is all but completely gone if Rolph is on the table. Sacrificing damage is negligible -- your opponent inherently loses a lot more damage than you.
Consider this great Uppers hand: Maurice, Kazayan, Oxen, and Nellie. It is trash against a good SoA player; every card but Maurice is reduced to 2-3* stats, and poor Nellie will almost certainly not hit. But maybe, just maybe, if the Uppers player can land Maurice, Kazayan, and Oxen, he can win. (Or maybe not. Bristone and furied Wardom can still beat the 3-round.)
Now imagine Rolph as the final nail in the coffin. At just 5 pills, an attacking Rolph beats the 7 power 4*s pill for pill. At 6 pills, he overtakes the clan's bonus. Think about it.
Firstly, all stars pretty much have marina or saki banned in weeks. karen is such an unfair comparison...... of course she is good against gheist THATS THE POINT OF STOP: CARDS. some people use randy, nathan over her. and a hand like marina saki jessie and lets say nathan suffers from low damage against gheist. against the ace cards like bristone, leviatonn, they will need to win 3 rounds to win the game. you just have not tried.
Exactly! Every Gheist player should know that All stars has got upper hands against Gheist even without Karen. I am pretty sure you are a good Gheist player.
@ 0 the oracle,
Gheist vs All stars:
The 1st point, leviatonn is also banned frequently.
2nd, you don't have round winning advantage. Your heavy hitters have no chance to hit on. look at this, Methane - 5 power, Hringer- 5 power, XU-52- 4 power.
3rd, if you build deck with round winning ability(Rolph Klawz), you don't have damage advantage, look at randy's 6 damage, sigurd's 8 damage, oyoh 7 damage Harrow 7 damage.
4th, most of the cards are not ability reliant, except for Randy, kind of, but still can beat methane and hringer pill for pill.
"Montana is dead against Gheist,"
it's funny to hear that, if you have all the SOA vulnerable in the deck, I would say it is not a good deck. You relied too much on a unstable card- avola.
Did you ever look at their other cards? Don, gianfranco, desmond, ace, vitto, edd cr, donnie mona,etc, does SOA work against them?
As you mentioned Bristone,
1. As level 64 you should know how to play your heavy hitters around her
2. Against Montana and All stars you have no chance to hit both heavy hitters on, and block theirs. The frequent situation is, either you get one heavy hit while fail to block their heavy hitter, or block their heavy hitter and fail to make a big damage yourself. When you have bristone in the draw, almost eveything is predictable!
One should be responsible for the words he said, and I think the context is supposed to be the following, I am copying all these
"Err, seriously though, maybe it's just my personal experience, but I feel like I've noticed the exact opposite. When the meta is a bit of a mishmash, people seem to gravitate towards attack manip clans. But about 3/4 of their staples rely on ability damage, so when attack manip gets prominent, people gravitate towards SoA clans. Reducing most of a hand to a pathetic 2-4 damage can completely ruin your opponent's day. The round-winning advantage doesn't matter too much at that point, because a good hit from a SoA clan character can be worth two hits from Sakrohm, Montana, or Uppers."
Yes, you know how Gheist win the fight: a good hit! And I was talking about it. We both meant: When vs attack manipulation, , Gheist needs a good hit more than the round winning ability to settle down a fight. Why do you think Rolph's 6 damage for 5 star is a good hit? Do you think with his 'good hit' can make sure a victory with 2 hits?
3/4 of their staples rely on ability damage? Don, Gianfranco, Desmond, Ace, vito, Edd Cr, Mona, Virginia, Stella, miss Stella, Petra, Slopsh, Woodxsxt, Anakrohm, Dorian,Hefty, Lady, Maurice, Ruby, Harold, jose star blablabla....Don't tell me these cards are not their staples in the meta game.
A draw of Maurice, Kazayan, Oxen, and Nellie? Sorry this deck is build by a newbie - I ll explain it latter
I admit that Kazayan, Oxen, and Nellie are trash against SOA, and meanwhile SOA is trash against Dorian, Harold, rubie, hefty. A skilled player should know how to mix these two kinds of cards into your deck. Finally you put Wardom into your deck, and this is what I mean: I prefer Wardom. Imagine when your Rolph hit with 6 pills, you have a good chance to land the damage, but only 6 damage and it will not make you a 2-hits-win against Dorian's 7 and Lady's 8 because your bristone is too predictable drawn with Rolph. It's very easy to hide one of the heavy hitters and play around her.
Imagine, you have prepared 2 hitters to land damage, when vs montana, all stars, rescue, you have no chance to hit both heavy hitters on, and block theirs. The frequent situation is, either you land one heavy hit while fail to block their heavy hitter, or block one of their heavy hitters and fail to make a big damage yourself. When you have Bristone in the draw, almost eveything is predictable!
This is the last time I say it: as Rolph's lack of damage, your opponent can win the fight with 2 hits but not 3 hits as you always mentioned.
how does stompah deserve a ban
Your attitude seems to be one of wanting to win a debate and not of wanting to learn. IMO it's not important who's right and who's wrong, it's WHAT's right that's important. Your arguments tend to be a bit biased and one-sided. Please try to remember that winning the debate does not boost your ELO score.
1) "Good players play big hitters around Bristone"
Sir, she is a 3 min 2 DR! If she takes 3 damage off a character who was pilled, she has done her job. Who she DRs is not important as long as she helps control gap.
2) "GHEIST can't hit against All Stars"
It's true that All Stars have a significant advantage, but there are plenty of All Star staples that are reduced to 7 or 8 power equivalent. Randy, Nathan, Quinn, etc...
3) "you don't have damage advantage, look at randy's 6 damage, sigurd's 8 damage, Oyoh 7 damage Harrow 7 damage. "
Naming isolated cards is a very easy game to play and not informative. Watch this: "Wardom 8 damage, XU52 8 damage, Methane 7 damage, and GHEIST have an advantage in being able to DR!"
4) Your list of cards that don't rely on abilities consists mostly of 5 damage or less cards. Notable exceptions being Don and Lady, whose round-winning advantage is not that huge, and Dorian, who is almost always banned.
5) Have you considered any scenarios where SoA is not run mono? What happens when GHEIST or Roots have their round-winning potential effectively boosted by another clan?