offline 0_The_Oracle Imperator Open Casket
Sunday 06/01/2013, 16:52

Hey guys so I will just start us off. I dont get how lizbeth is on top of the charts??? I mean for 1 less damage, you get lulabee, which is FAR more stable than lizbeth. I know, different clans, but Ulu is not that bad by themselves. + there are many replacements, and lizbeth is what, like 60k? this is ridiculous.

I think Dorian is quite borderline as well, uppers can still do pretty well without him. Herman, hefty, even lady are all replacements for dorian, i mean i know he is strong against SoA, but thats it!. Herman is actually more threatening than dorian in many matchups minus gheist/roots.

offline -Bakuryu Senior  
Tuesday 26/03/2013, 03:06

No.. -power and damage doesn't equal +.. we've done this so much! Doesn't get 7 damage. +&-=different. I know what you mean though.. I guess. And ya I'd say they're tied depending on what you need.

offline 0 Nomi Titan  
Tuesday 26/03/2013, 03:11

Graks is not nearly as good as Jackie. Mokra is amazingly overpowered, new Spyke.

offline 0_The_Oracle Imperator Open Casket
Tuesday 26/03/2013, 08:59

Ummm no.... pretty close to grax... pill for pill mokra beats him. i mean of course the reduction is not as good, but honestly DR is not the best thing you would want to do on a 4*. thing is, the winning potential mokra has is quite a bit better than Grax's potential DR, (look there exists +life, poison, -life and even pillz manip). of course grax is very solid against SoA, but mokra is not far behind with 7/5 -8 attack.

offline Ambrelo1134 Titan  
Tuesday 26/03/2013, 20:04


I'm not that stupid. - is better than plus sometimes because u'd rather be at a power advantage of 7-5 than 9-7. The same goes for the opposite obviously. Also, Atk manip + PR makes a good combo.

@0 the oracle

Have you noticed that graks is mostly used in Survivor? Graks is better than Mokra.

@Nomi Ld

I don't think graks is worse than Jackie. Although Jackie is a little better against, Soa, etc, you gotta admit than -5 opp dmg min 1 is slightly better than SOA. (Yes, I know that SOA is very powerful) Graks also can't be crushed by Flinch smiley

Let's get back on topic. We're talking Elo here, not whether Graks, Jackie, Mokra, or Spyke is better than any of the stated.

offline hashburki Guru REIGN OF THE SUPREMES
Wednesday 27/03/2013, 09:11

I agree, Mokra is definately OP and is almost as good as Graks


Jackie Cr is a bit better than Graks, Jackie can't be reduced unless its Roots or Ghiest DR, Jackie has a better bonus and 1 more Damage. So Jackie is more devastating in attack, though defensively Graks is much better but Jackie still has his uses and is better defensively against Ozzy Hilly Billy Eddie Azel etc

offline 0_The_Oracle Imperator Open Casket
Wednesday 27/03/2013, 14:48

@ambre please try to read, i never said mokra is better, i said very close..... and graks is used more in survivor for a reason.... you have fewer pillz so DR si better, mokra is for ELO and he is not banned. try to make some sense this is also elo forum.....

jackie cr and graks are two very different cards... why are you guys trying to compare them....
1. different clans
2. different abilities
3. just because they have same number of stars doesnt mean it is comparable......

jackie cr is mainly for offensive purposes because simply put she is not very good defensive in most cases. she has better stats and bonus, of course straight up she beats graksmxxt but thats like saying glosh is a better card.

graks is a SUPER defensive card that can still be used for offense when SoA is present, thats why he is the most popular splash in survivor decks......

offline Ambrelo1134 Titan  
Wednesday 27/03/2013, 20:13

@0 the oracle

Just because I state a fact doesn't mean I didn't read. The fact I stated was "Graks is better than Mokra." I did not say that 0 the oracle is incorrect because he said mokra is better than graks. I simply stated a fact.

Mokra won't be valid for elo soon. 18% of votes this week.

Also, Graks is a super defensive card.

Quote from 0 the oracle: "can still be used for offense when SOA is present" Graks can be used for offense when SOA is not present. 2-3 pills makes sense. 7,5 is considered solid stats for a 4*. 8,5 is even better.

Yes, Graks is the most popular splash in survivor decks. (If you don't count leaders as splash)

offline Thai_231 Veteran 3LO MA$T3R
Friday 29/03/2013, 07:58

There are some cards I don't think deserve their perma-bans:
Arkn: Really powerful, but not a game-changing cards.
Wee Lee: Strong and solid, good damage and ability, but he is just a good addition for his clan, because the Ulu Watu is lack of damage, and no one will spend one of their main nuker like a shield, not like Marina, while she is pair with cards like Jessie, Randy and so on.
Elvira: while Lea ban is quite reasonable, cause she, like Lehane, is a solid wall and kill many clans like Freaks and Berseck, I don't think Elvira deserve a ban. She is a solid card, that's all.
Spyke: with the sharp increase of Power and Damage protect cards, he should be released. He may can dominate some low star cards, but Desmond will kill him, Benicio and TGaank are good again him, not mentioned cards like Qubik and Tuck. Another reason is that Berseck is really broken without him.

offline 0 ComeAtMe Titan aussie crusaders
Friday 29/03/2013, 08:44

I agree on the unbanning of Arkn, disagree on the rest. Wee Lee is still too powerful - 9/6 with DR with a clan who have an abundance of 10 powered cards (with bonus). Elvira is banned for a good reason too - she was to king of the Rescue clan for ELO, she is still to much of a threat with her bonus. We've already had this argument with Spyke. For every counter, there are about 5 cards that can't counter him - the last thing ELO needs is Spyke.

offline 0_The_Oracle Imperator Open Casket
Friday 29/03/2013, 09:12

@thai cards dont have to be game changing to get banned.

arkn: not game changing, but forces your opponent to pill. honestly hes not that powerful, but super annoying and he had very powerful teammates. could be unbanned possibly.
wee lee: yah possibly unban but ulu watu dont even need him that badly.
elvira: yah maybe, but unbanning her means the banning of another card, maybe steve or their 5*s.
spyke: lol just no. i can see where you are coming at though. with the release of mokra yah he doesnt seem that powerful. but in fact, it is just that mokra is completely op. yah mokra is ridiculous. BAN HIM UR WHY DID YOU RELEASE HIM

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