offline Euzebe Colossus Open Casket
Wednesday 01/02/2012, 17:12

Hello all,

We made a series of interviews between the end of 2011 and the beginning of 2012. These interviews persuaded us to complete a project we were thinking about for a long time: the setting up of a cards rotation system.

Right now there are 800 cards in the collection and it’s already too much for the game to run smoothly. The players who have all the cards always use the strongest of a clan and even if it makes them win matches they are frustrated not to see more variety. For their part, the beginners have to face a huge collection and they often feel quite lost.

We want to create a list that includes only characters released in the past two years (+ leaders and starter characters) and change several rooms which allow players to only use the characters in this list. We won’t impose this list in every rooms because our goal is not to stop you from playing the oldest cards, for example the DM T2 and Survivor T2 won’t change at all even if names will be different.

Let’s see what will happen in detail:

1/ Create a list of characters called «Standard» which will be updated every 6 months:
This list will contain Leaders, Starter Decks characters, all characters released within these last 2 years before the update (LD included) and characters which will be released after the update.
In practical terms it will give about ten characters allowed in each clan (with more or less the same number of characters in each level). Note that the new clans will keep all their characters. It will be taken into account in the cards releases planning. We will act as to give each clan what they need to be efficient.

2/ Creation of 3 new deck formats:
Extended Format: all characters allowed, no doubles, 40 stars max., equivalent to T2.
Standard Format: Standard characters only, 40 stars mac., no doubles.
Standard Format 25: Standard characters only, 25 stars max., no doubles, list of characters banned if it’s needed (for Leaders for example).
Note that the T1 format disappears.

3/ Finally, create or adapt battle rooms:
The Standard battle room : Standard Format with a DT every other hour.
Instead of opening a less than 26 stars (T1) room and a more than 26 stars (T2) one, you will have one single room BUT you’ll face opponents whose decks have a number of stars close to yours. This mechanism corresponds better to the reality of DTs today where every players try to find the good combination which will give the most points while winning matches with 20 to 30 stars decks. Merging the two rooms will allow you to keep this optimization spirit without the «artificial» side of the stars limitation. This flexibility combined with the Standard format will give a breath of fresh air to DTs while keeping specificity.

This room will be the ONLY DT room. There won’t be any T2, T1 or ELO Daily Tournament. We know that it’s not harmless and it was a very difficult decision to take. Some of you struggled a long time to obtain very expensive collectors which allow them to improve their results in DT and their disappointment is understandable. Nevertheless, DT’s today are clearly dominated by some decks not to say several highly efficient cards which is not healthy in a competitive game mode.

The ELO room: Standard format 25 (with potentially some bans), same rules except that there won’t be DTs in this room any more.
Use the Standard rules in the ELO mode sounds quite obvious to us. It will allow some regular changes to the mode and it will remove old characters which cause balancing problems. It should reduce the number of staff banned characters and no more characters banned by players.

About DT, we think that the ELO mode is pretty different from the DT. There is no reason to mix these two game modes. Today, ELO players have the opportunity to win free credits without playing in DT. Tomorrow they’ll have to choose between Dt and ELO which is already the case for players playing in other modes (Survivor or DM).

3 Deathmatch rooms:
Extended DM: Extended format, current DM rules.
Standard DM: Standard format, current DM rules.
Standard DM 25: Standard format 25, current DM rules.
The Extended DM will be equivalent to the current DM T2, only the name will change.
The Standard DM will allow players with big decks but with characters in the Standard list. The DM T1 will disappear and we’ll add a Standard 25 room. We noticed that the rare players in DM T1 were more ELO players than DT T1 players. We hope that the Standard DM 25 will be more used than the current DM T1 room. If it’s not the case, we will think about it. If there are DM T1 players here who are reading this message and don’t want this change to Standard DM 25, don’t hesitate to let us know.

3 Survivor rooms.
Extended Survivor: Extended format.
Standard Survivor: Standard format.
Standard Survivor 25: Standard format 25.
Same idea as Deathmatch.

And the rooms which won’t change:
Fight Club: the deck you want.
Warehouse: Training.
Warehouse no pillz: Training NoPill

offline wasteroftime Titan Open Casket
Thursday 16/02/2012, 08:39

And i quote

I still haven't heard a single good argument from the pro-Standard side.

and you wont... because you see it as a limb that you will lose. instead of what it really is... a game. A game that can change and you can still play the game after it change which may or may not be better.... see that??? possibility.

but if you think it is equivalent to losing a limb... then no.... except maybe if you are the bionic man and you actually end up with better parts....

dont look for positives of standard as if you are actually expecting to perceive nothing other than negatives

edited by wasteroftime thursday 16/02/2012, 08:39

offline wasteroftime Titan Open Casket
Thursday 16/02/2012, 08:37

OP cards and staples kill variety... that is fact

lets talk extremes here. since we are speculating right... smiley

i could have a pool of 2000 cards. but if each clan has say 2-3 staple cards. the game is far far far far far far less diverse than if each clan had ONLY 10 cards each, but almost every single one is playable.

offline DarthTx Hero The Trend
Thursday 16/02/2012, 09:05

@wasteroftime I can understand your wanting to look on the bright side here, and its quite possible UR staff is leaving out key information which alleviates a lot of the complaints voiced here, but going off what we know here, Ghelas's analysis of standard and diversity seems a good deal more logical.

Yes, having good cards means that people will often put them in their deck if they can afford them, but this is system has far more diversity than the 10 cards per clan you think will encourage it so. OP cards should be ruled out to balance clans and keep things interesting, but staples should by no means receive the same treatment. They're called staples for a reason: they're fall back, go to cards. Yes many people playing the clan will use them, but they're what provide the foundation to trying all the other cards currently available. And no one's forcing people to use them, they're just used because they work.

Adversely, 10 cards per clan will force people to work with a much smaller pool of cards. And it's not simply a matter of what people can do, but will do: Those same people who latch onto staple cards and staple cards alone will jump over to clans like Berzerk and Vortex, who have their staples and OPs readily available. And as for those people who are looking to build creative decks, their choices will be far smaller and harder to compete with fully available clans built to go toe to toe with prestandard clans.

offline ghelas Titan E X C A L I B U R
Thursday 16/02/2012, 09:18

What I'm telling you is that this is not the case. Out of the roughly 10 cards per clan that are legal, maybe 4-5 are playable, if you're lucky. For example, Roots has just 1 2* card: Gudvibz. He is going to be almost as unplayable in Standard as he is now. So in a 6-card clan there are 0 2* options right now.

The problem is that cards aren't getting cut by means of careful evaluation, cards are simply being cut by release time. New staple cards are going to emerge, and some of the OP cards people are complaining about now will get to stay. I think that you are ignoring the things that we know for sure at this point in favor of simply maintaining an optimistic attitude. While your attitude itself is great, your logic is flawed...

A bad decision is a bad decision regardless of context. It doesn't matter if it's made in a game or real life.

Saying "it might turn out okay in the end" does not make a bad decision good.

Sure, it's not going to be the end of the world if this bad decision causes UR to fall apart. I'm sure we could all find other games to play. But it would be even better if this thread got people thinking about what UR should become, and UR's developers follow this feedback to a more constructive decision.

offline kazjun Titan aussie crusaders
Thursday 16/02/2012, 09:19

Apart from the fact that most clans have more then 10 cards that are playable now, as opposed to the fact that standard wants clans to have no more than 10, there's the choice factor. I can choose what 8 cards I play. Standard is barely a step above UR showing up, and telling me I HAVE to play these cards, cause the rest are banned. UR might as well trash ALL the cards and then release 8 new cards and say "there's your deck, now play with it". Look at rescue or any clan with lots of support abilities. Can you say that UR hasn't just dictated exactly what deck they will have to use?

As for new releases magically fixing everything? Are you joking? Roots have 6 cards, so you think new releases may have done something to buff their numbers a bit. Instead the Ld is a berzerk, who have their full clan. The lastest newblood? No roots, just all stars, piranas, freaks and berzerk again. And of those, only the pirana and the freak might be used for standard 25. I mean another all stars 5*? That doesn't cover any gaps in the clan. And a berzerk? Not only do they have a full clan, but they got great 4*'s already anyway. So how did any of these new releases prepare clans for standard? Is the next newblood going to have 4 roots or something? How long will the non vortex and berzerk clans have to wait for playable decks? Cause looking at the releases so far, we're not being prepared for standard, we're going in without any planning at all.

offline kazjun Titan aussie crusaders
Thursday 16/02/2012, 09:21

And by the way, it's not speculation about which cards are available. Check out posts 145 and 146 on page 15 of this thread. The exact cards are there, just add the berzerk Ld and the 4 newblood.

offline wasteroftime Titan Open Casket
Thursday 16/02/2012, 09:30

No the bad decision is the one that kills the business....

a game that caters to veteran players more than it caters to new and future players is a game that will likely die off faster.... a generalization that will hold true in most cases. but hey we seem to all like generalizations in this thread

its a game boys and kids, its ok if it changes.... if it looses a few players, it is ok too, as long as new ones come in.

i enjoy this game, and id like to enjoy it for a bit longer. in my evaluation based on all the changes this game has gone through since i started over 3 years ago --- this change is the right thing.

go dig up every thread on any change to the elo format in the past few years. i promise you it follows along the same line as this thread. promise smiley

offline kazjun Titan aussie crusaders
Thursday 16/02/2012, 10:41

Are you sure you want to bring ELO into this? Cause lately ELO struggles to break 3 mil clintz prize money. Look at ELO history before the most recent change (around Jan last year) the ELO prize pool was usually between 3.5-4 mil clintz. And seeing how the prize pool is based off how many games are played? Well, that's about 500k clintz worth of games not being played. Per week. Sure, the format change wasn't the only factor, but combined with mass bans (like what standard really is) and such, it was the straw that broke alot of camels backs.

And I like that you're trying to be positive about this, but I can't muster the same amount of faith. I mean, what can I base it on? Actions? No, their recent releases don't say to me they are preparing for standard. Words? What words. They haven't said anything at all. I get that Euzebe might be the only one that speaks english. But it isn't like this was posted yesterday. It's been over a week and over 700 posts. A lot of concerns could be put to rest if someone at least said they were listening and taking in some of our suggestions. And that they were taking consideration of our concerns.

Instead, we only have the initial post which says all kinds of bad. And if anything, suggestions of everything being alright are the speculation. Cause if you have info that says otherwise, please share it. Cause official info is so scarce.

offline NutsOnTheFlop Master  
Thursday 16/02/2012, 11:28

- SeP - - Veteran - MOONSPELL DEMONS
Today at 01:03
When does this standard/extended will start?

Its a shame the portuguese and brazilian comunity still dont have this topic in the forum!


offline kazjun Titan aussie crusaders
Thursday 16/02/2012, 12:15

They said they were thinking in March on the french forums, but since then there is speculation that they are rethinking things. But officially, I have no idea since they haven't said anything in the english forum either.

Answer to this subject

Clint City, night.