offline 1san Imperator Black Sea Piranas
Sunday 22/07/2012, 04:32

So typically, we've had Coppy opp bonus for quite awhile.

It's really a great ability and I'm quite pleased with it. There's just two thing on my mind now; Will Copy Opp Ability ever come, and will it be overpowered once it's here?

So firstly, will it come?

If we follow some old trends...I'd say it's likely!
Here are some examples of abilities that complement each other;
Poison VS Heal
Stop opp ability VS "Stop"
Courage Vs Revenge
- Opp Damage Vs - Opp Life
+ Attack Vs - Attack
- Power VS + Power
+ Pillz Vs - Pillz

And then the one that really makes me think we aren't to far away from Coppy opp Ability: + Life per damage and then after quite some time, Sah Brinak brought us the fabled + Pillz per damage.

So in a nutshell there is a high chance it'll come, but on the the matter of it be to ridiculous to add.

Imagine a typical run of the mill Fang Pi Clang card with; 6 power and 6 damage, then followed up with Coppy Opp Ability.

Now let me run you by some scenarios:

Vs Copper = Potential 11/10
Vs Nobrodroid = 6/10 able to get +4 Pillz
VS Avola = Potential 6/14 !!!
Vs Oscar = Potential 10/10
Vs Sah Brinak = 6/10 and could recover 7 pillz back subtracting the furry
Vs Karrion = 6/8 + the 2 poison means massively dangerous(Ends games fast)
Vs Kenny = Potential 6/24!!!!!!!
Vs Kolos = Potential 6/14
Vs Uranus = Turns into a 6/5 with the ability to stop Uranus in it's tracks
Vs Sasha = Potential 6/10 with +16


So is this balanced or not? What do you think?

offline Tanto89 Titan X. LycurguS .X
Friday 27/07/2012, 00:36

Copy opp ability is OP if they give the card a good stats and in a good clan (and I'm sure it is bound to happen, soon or later)

copy opp bonus follow similar pattern
they give it to a card with bad stats and now they increase it by giving it to Futoshi Ld (soon, give it to 5 stars on +/- att or power clan and we will get OP card

you will be left wondering if they make a card like Ken HK suggest
8/6 copy opp ability, and SOB
how overpowered it would be?

and yes, don't say they will not do it
they did it so many times already
for example, big - power and low minimum is a very strong ability (All Stars, mona, Tula, etc case), and we get Caelus Cr and spyke
+/- pillz is a very strong ability (dalhia and Smokey Cr case) and they got kalindra

even 8/4 copy opp ability on Sentinel 3* would be OP
8/4 should be without ability at 3* (remember zatman?), add copy opp ability and he will be OP

or imagine they put it in GHEIST, that would be really funny to see your opp face
losing their ability and being slapped back on the face by their own ability (yes that is OP)

how many cards did you see without ability in the past 3-4 years? I could estimate less than 10 (around 8 cards)
there is a high chance you will see opp with ability, good ability (except backlash and stop)

offline OC-Vanity Imperator Open Casket
Friday 27/07/2012, 00:44

Wanna hear a solution? Don't put it on fpc cards, don't put it on 8/6 cards, don't put it on anything that makes it overpowered. A 7/3 3* with COA in Pussycats wouldn't be overpowered at all. Sure, if it goes against a kolols it'll have 7/9 or against a copper have 12/3, but more than likely the opponent can learn to avoid it. I'm sure if the UR staff ever decide to make this a possibility, that they will take into account all of the abilities possible and not put it on an overpowering 5*.

offline Tanto89 Titan X. LycurguS .X
Friday 27/07/2012, 04:03

Heck, it seems I forgot they changed kalindra ability to +1 life per damage (instead of +1 pillz per damage)

Sah Brinak could be a good example of UR keep giving OP cards.

kalindra is evidence of how + life become OP (usually what you get is 7/5 +1 life per damage, but now you get 10/6 +1 life per damage)

yeah, 8/6 CoA and SOB, I can see how crazy it would be. there is almost no reason to be afraid of any card since it has 8 power and SOB
then he will copy opp ability. in almost all cases, he would be better or as good as his opp

offline Lollop Cr Imperator XiongDang
Friday 27/07/2012, 05:10

SubclavianHoA - Imperator - Harbingers of Ares
Yesterday at 17:19

Other -4 opp power min 4 cards:

C Beast

They're pretty good, but by no means overpowered. The ability itself is okay if you put it on the right cards

we have some agreement may be but i am not totally agree with you
for my point of view
most of the card can may calculate like here
4/4 2*
5/5 3*
6/6 4*
7/7 5*
and ability is around +-2power/+-8~10atk/+-2Dmg
and some clan have a little better ability
u will find most card can fit in it

Tobbie is the 2nd best 2* in sent and he is very strong making 8power down to 4 with his bonus means u need two more pills (and if u 3*or above u need to 3 more pills) to win him

C Beast as u see 5+8=13 as the standard should be 7+7=14 therefore 1 pt less against thestandard
but he got -4power so is 2 pt more than the standard
end up with 1pt more than the standard 1pt is not op just not bad
and u have to consider the other 5* cards in the same clan
Oflgn is just a beast 7/5 with +1life/dmg this 7/10 fury=7/14
Dregn 1 of the best 5* in elo 8 power and 8 dmg

Tula have the same statment as C Beast end up with 1pt more than the standard 1pt is not op just not bad

and these 3 above have a common problem power too low
but skype do not

therefore if you want to put a -4power on some1 else
u have to put on the card under standard
but not on a standard card

some of the abilty is better than the other one

offline Lollop Cr Imperator XiongDang
Friday 27/07/2012, 05:22

8/6 CoA is strong

let see what we got in our current card pool with 8/6?
most of them are in the clan like +2dmg/hp/poison which is not helping them to win the battle
or have very weak ability protection XXX...smiley revenge
or banned/cr lol

offline Lollop Cr Imperator XiongDang
Friday 27/07/2012, 07:07

1 last thing
just do not search for 8power and 7-8dmg card and you will lol on it

offline ghelas Titan E X C A L I B U R
Friday 27/07/2012, 09:50

Man, too many people these days think that any good card is a problem.
If something is OP, it should really give an advantage to the player using it, right?

Everybody complains about Spyke and Kalindra, but the truth is they just don't like fighting them. Totally understandable. But if they were really majorly OP, it would be easy to see them distorting ELO scores. But that's not true. You can't just put those cards in your deck and expect a free 1400+. Any time you feel like talking about how OP a card is, I challenge you to put it in your ELO deck and try beat your best ELO score with it. If you can't, hey, maybe it's not as bad as you thought.

UR is moving in a direction where there are much more strong cards than weak ones, which is IMO good for game balance. It means that instead of guessing, or randomly pilling your big attack manip clan, you really have to build a great deck and form a great strategy if you want to succeed.

TBH Kalindra has the same problems as the 7/5 LPD cards, and once people figure that out, they will stop complaining so much. And Spyke's problem is only that he is too strong for his star count, not that he is too strong for the game. If he was a 5*, nobody would complain about him at all.

offline subclavianHoA Imperator Harbingers of Ares
Friday 27/07/2012, 11:41

@Lollop Cr:
I think we are in agreement, there are strong abilities and there are weak abilities, but it's the card itself that matters smiley

I think we have different definitions of what constitutes an overpowered card. For me, an OP card isn't one that is uncounterable and undefeatable, but a card that skews the game so much that all you see in the meta are decks that use it and decks that counter it. For example, you can't get a free 1400+ by using kalindra because 90% of the opponents you meet are either stacked with kalindra counters or they're using her too. But still, an elo meta dominated by kalindra and counter-kalindra stifles innovative decks and clan variety, which is imho bad in the long run.

offline ghelas Titan E X C A L I B U R
Friday 27/07/2012, 17:40


I do see your point of view, but what do you define as a Kalindra counter (or a Spyke counter, for that matter?) SoB? SoA? DR? Can you show me any good ELO deck that doesn't employ at least some of these elements?

Consider this point of view. When something like Kalindra comes out, people often build their decks a bit differently, but a good ELO deck still needs to hold up against the usual suspects (high attack manip clans/SoA clans.) These are effective decks that might actually never have been built without the need to take Kalindra into consideration.

They say that necessity is the mother of invention. I think these cards inspire innovative decks, rather than stifling them.
New releases will always change the meta. Without this, the game wouldn't move forward.

To me, an OP card is something that 1) Doesn't have many counters or is 2) Only counterable by.a very specific play style. Caelus Cr is a good example of an OP card that earned his ban. He causes most cards to have 2 power to his 4, which means at high pills he more than makes up for attack manipulation. He swings for 8. Well, at least we can stop his ability, right? Nope, he's in Skeelz! Other than DR, you could run some All Stars against him. SoB and SoA don't slow him down at all. Maybe you could beat him easily if you draw 2 Protection: Power cards?
Long story short, it's definitely impossible to build a *well-rounded* non - All Star deck that defends against Dumbledore Cr as well.

offline subclavianHoA Imperator Harbingers of Ares
Saturday 28/07/2012, 03:51


Yes, I see what you're saying. The meta changed quite a bit the last two weeks as a result of kalindra, with more Nightmare, Roots and Frozn than ever before. It is certainly a breath of fresh air from the constant drub of mono-sentinels and montanas that's been dominating the lower portions of elo in recent months, so I guess it is an innovation of sorts. And there are those who argue that any change that upsets the status quo is a good change.

However I feel you shouldn't have to wake up each monday morning wondering whether kalindra is banned this week, and figure out what deck you're supposed to run as a result of her banning/unbanning. A player shouldn't be forced away from playing a particular clan just because they don't offer a good counter to kalindra. For me, any single card shouldn't exert that much influence. I agree that back in the day caelus was more overpowered than kalindra, but right now in the current environment she is still considered overpowered.

Of course, the blame shouldn't be placed solely on kalindra. Imho the UR staff also kinda screwed up when they banned three of elo's best stoppers (Arno, Ulrich and yayoi) in one fell swoop. These cards served the important purpose of stabilizing elo and preventing overpowered cards from upsetting the game. Sure, we still have Yookie and Artus and Uranus, but the less (good) stoppers we have, the more likelihood that even a slightly overpowered card could wreak Havok in elo.

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