offline 0_The_Oracle Imperator Open Casket
Sunday 06/01/2013, 16:52

Hey guys so I will just start us off. I dont get how lizbeth is on top of the charts??? I mean for 1 less damage, you get lulabee, which is FAR more stable than lizbeth. I know, different clans, but Ulu is not that bad by themselves. + there are many replacements, and lizbeth is what, like 60k? this is ridiculous.

I think Dorian is quite borderline as well, uppers can still do pretty well without him. Herman, hefty, even lady are all replacements for dorian, i mean i know he is strong against SoA, but thats it!. Herman is actually more threatening than dorian in many matchups minus gheist/roots.

offline AGPrinz Titan The BeSharps
Thursday 10/01/2013, 22:00

I could say things too "all top players use fpc clan" there we go now im right just like you. also, shifou is not as good as futoshi ld...

offline ghelas Titan E X C A L I B U R
Thursday 10/01/2013, 22:44

You could say things, but saying things doesn't make them true.

We can actually *look* at what top players are using, and there wouldn't be a whole lot of FPC in it. I haven't run into a single t100 regular this week who was running FPC. In fact, I haven't seen any FPC since I've hit 1250 this week.

offline Fotakou Imperator  
Thursday 10/01/2013, 23:55

I also haven't seen any FPC although I am at around 1100 right now smiley

offline KitsuneKatsumi Imperator XiongDang
Friday 11/01/2013

On Fang Pi 4*: The best thing about power reduction is that it's stable. Barring SOA or power reduction abilities and bonuses, you can always count on Fei having an 8-6 power advantage. This simplifies your math especially pilling on turn 1 and turn 2. Fei's ability makes him a good counter to many powerful 4* and 5* characters: for instance, he is far better against Grudj or Lizbeth than Futoshi Ld. Crucially, Fei and Heitachi naturally complement eachother, much better than Futoshi and Heitachi, in much the same way that Melanie was the perfect complement to Spyke. Against many clan bonuses, even -1 power is better than copy bonus. Finally, Copy bonus fails against 3-1 splits.

offline KitsuneKatsumi Imperator XiongDang
Friday 11/01/2013, 00:19

On Vortex 4*: They are well balanced against eachother so it completely depends on your preset and metagame. For instance, this week I am using All-Stars/ Vortex. What do All-Stars need? SOA and atk manipulation. But I'd rather have flexible SOA (Onyx) than conditional SOA here so I went with Dagg+ Onyx instead of Dagg+ X-0DUS.

T Gaank: The best if you can get SOA from your other 1/2. Better teammate for Dagg than X-0DUS because he can discourage DR for at least 1 round. Also there are no 3* with his ability.

X-0DUS: The extra damage is huge for Vortex but his SOA often misses. His SOA is beastly against DR. However, there are many situations where it is hard to win with only a 7 power character (i.e. against 8 power or against All- Stars). His SOA makes him the best against one of Vortex worst matchups (Piranas). SOA is also useful to protect the Vortex bonus against Ability: SOB (Lucy/ Flanagan).

Dagg: Has the most consistently useful ability and is the best at winning. He makes a good wall but Vortex are not ideal walls: in situations where you must win the round, there are better characters- Vortex bonus is useless in that situation. He is good to lead with so he is a must if you are not using Cyb Lhia (i.e. you are tired of poison or there is a lot of SOA in the meta). He is the most replacable because of Deea, but you can also use both.

If I had to rank, I'd probably go T Gaank (best teammate, super stats) > Dagg (most consistent) > X-O (best sometimes)

offline JO3SHMO Imperator Wise Men Distracted
Friday 11/01/2013, 01:26

Jessica being OP is amusing. smiley I mean, she only has to pill 2 or even 3 more to win against any kind of power or attack manipulation. (Of course there are exceptions, but you get the idea)

There's a difference between Fei not being chosen due to better options (subject to preference) and Fei being garbage. There are plenty of cards you would class as 'garbage', and Fei is not one of them.

I don't know if you realise, Prinz, but no one has denied that Futoshi is a strong card. He is threatening and he is solid. I'm not sure he's OP though. Seeing as Jessica is apparently also OP, you can understand why people question your opinion. Also, I'm not sure if Futoshi Ld has ever actually been player banned (someone correct me if I'm mistaken).

There is a difference between good and OP. For the record, I agree that Shifou is better than Futoshi Ld. He is stronger for his star count, and is much more necessary to his clan. He is a solid card that glues together the FPC half-deck.

offline ghelas Titan E X C A L I B U R
Friday 11/01/2013, 04:22

I don't think that Futoshi has ever suffered a ban.

In all fairness, I am seeing some FPC now, and running them myself, but they are nowhere near as prominent above the 1300 mark as Junkz, All Stars, and Roots... They are a great clan, an old favorite of mine, and have helped get me to t100 several times. But even with the addition of Futoshi and Shifou, the clan is still one good release away from needing temp bans, I think. And that is because, despite their abundance of cards that look pretty good on paper, they don't really have much of a way to pick through DR, and lack DR themselves.

offline E10din Titan Harbingers of Ares
Friday 11/01/2013, 04:36

I fail to see how Futoshi Ld could be considered OP. Now as i see it there are a few possible things that could make him OP. Simply put his power/damage, his ability, or either/both of these in the context of his clan. First power/damage. as AGPrinz has so amusingly pointed out, he feels that Fei is garbage. With both of them sharing the exact same stats, we must then conclude that his issue with Futoshi Ld lies with his ability. So let us examine

Vs Allstars, will give him a 1 power advantage in most matchups (Bar SOA/protect power/copy power/multiple reductions). strong? yes. broken? hardly. were having a 1 power advantage broken, all 3 power manip clans would be broken.
Vs Bangers/Ulu watu 10/6. So what you're saying is he's numar. Is numar OP? well i'm inclined to think you might think he is, given your opinion on jessica. but rest assured, he is not
Vs Attack manip he evens the playing field. it is tantamount to him having SOB. Do you think Shifou is broken? No you do not. ergo vs attack manip, by your standards he is not OP.
Vs Frozen he's useful maybe 1 round, tops. and if they let you play him with their bonus, they're a moron
Vs SOA does the same as fei
Vs SOB does less than fei
Vs Pcats whoo-hoo an 8/4 dr. fei is better in this matchup
Vs skeelz fei does more
Vs freaks FPC doesnt want poison, so fei does more
Vs FPC/Junta/Jungo 8/8, but if you're running FPC you dont need more damage anyways
Vs Vortex do you want him to lose?

offline E10din Titan Harbingers of Ares
Friday 11/01/2013, 04:38


Simply put, fei is far more versatile, and does much more against virtually every clan matchup than futoshi ld does. and since you yourself have said that fei is garbage, by your standards, so is futoshi ld. note that for the purposes of this thought exercise, +life was given an equal value to damage, as +2 life gaps the same ammount as +2 damage does. i understand that one sets up for a KO and one doesn't, but as i've pointed out, if you're running FPC, you are not wanting for damage. As for jessica being OP, you clearly have no idea what OP means. I can, off the top of my head, without even looking at the clans think of at least 10 2* cards that would be stronger than she is, many of whom are not considered to be OP.

offline ghelas Titan E X C A L I B U R
Friday 11/01/2013, 05:50

@E10din: Although the gist of this is sound, you have a few little errors there. By your reasoning Fei looks like the better card, when he is in fact a bit worse. Your list is biased towards winning rounds, while disregarding the impact that damage has on the game. Futoshi's ability to retain his damage vs SoB makes him incredibly useful to his clan, since many FPC have mediocre gap vs SoB. Futoshi is strong vs Freaks because the possibility of him winning round 1 means that your opponent will be reduced to the 3 life min, and he has to work harder to get past it himself (having only 3 rounds left to do it in.) Vs +damage clans, he becomes a big KO threat or KO setup. Vs Vortex, he can become a lethal 3rd turn fork.

IMO the big difference between Fei and Futoshi is that Fei is a wall (who happens to have nice enough damage with bonus active) and Futoshi is a versatile card that can fill many roles depending on the situation.

Answer to this subject

Clint City, day.