Kitsune why do you like 5/3 splits so much? They aren't even that good in the current meta. I was playing All Stars/Vortex most of this week and I got up to 1405 ELO with it. I did not use a 5/3 split, in fact I always dreaded the matches where I had no Vortex bonus.

What I am really saying is 5/3 splits are not effective. Players that use decks like these almost never make top 100's. As soon as you realize that there are fantastic 4/4 splits (or even mono) and not 5/3 splits you will start making tops.

A 4/4 split has nearly the same chance of drawing a 3/1 hand as a 5/3. The probability is roughly around 1 in 20 matches that you'll get an extra 3/1 hand with 5/3.

While the Vortex bonus is very sweet, and I think Vortex *are* ideally run in a 4/4 (with GHEIST or Junkz), the All Star bonus is even sweeter, and AS has awesome characters but they really need their bonus. I'd rather have my 3-1 hands be 85% 3 AS 1 Vortex, than have a 50% chance of 3 Vortex 1 AS. 4/4 is ideal for Vortex but not for AS.

In short, running 4/4 instead of 5/3 does not significantly improve your draws. The drawback to running a 5/3 split is almost insignificant. A 5/3 split has the advantage of improving the consistency of my characters in 3-1 hands. It also means that there is far less risk to run a 1/2 deck with strong bonus clans such as AS, Uppers, Bangers or Montana.

It all comes down to personal preference. Both 5/3 and 4/4 decks can be solid. Kitsune explains the benefits of a 5/3 deck pretty well, I definitely agree that they can work... But a good 4/4 deck ideally has 5-6 cards in it that don't suffer greatly without bonus. (Good examples are cards like Pegh and Shifou -- one is a DR who 9/10 times has little need for his win-activated +gap bonus, and the other is still a strong defensive wall as an 8/3 SoB.)

A well-built 4/4 deck won't be at a disadvantage against a 5/3 deck, and vice versa.

Running a 4/4 split is only going to improve your chances of a better split, even if it is by the slightest. There is a very good reason to why people don't run 5/3, because it isn't as efficient as 4/4 splits. I can understand a 7/1 splash Chiara but I fail to understand these 6/2 or 5/3 splits, it baffles me. I made my top this week using a 4/4 split, they do work.

As soon as you make top in ELO using a 5/3 split tell me, then I will believe you that they CAN work.

I think many people don't run 5/3 because they don't understand the math, or they try 5/3 and get mad when they get 3/1 splits without realizing that you get pretty much the same number of 3/1 splits running 4/4. You also have to account for that some of the 3/1 splits you would get with a 4/4 now become 4/0 hands, which are very high quality hands (imagine if you could run mono with just 5 characters).

In a 4/4 preset, in your 3/1 splits, each of your 8 characters have an equal chance of being the character without the bonus. In a 5/3 preset, in your 3/1 splits, 93% of the time the character without the bonus is one of the 3 characters in your diminished 1/2. So let's say I was making a 5/3 Piranas/ Vortex. I'd rather have 93% chance that the character without bonus is Cyb Lhia, T Gaank or X-0DUS, than an equal chance that Tyd, Dalhia or Tula are left without a bonus.

If you don't believe that 5/3 gets about the same 3/1 splits as 4/4, you can do the math or you can test it out yourself.

@ComeAtMe
IMO 6/2 splits is quiet understandable, if you can understand a 7/1 splash Chiara, you should be able to understand a 6/2 Chiara/ Redra double splash or something like Jean/ Pegh or Spiaghi/ Angelo

6/2 splits are understandable but they just don't work for some players.

Kitsune, so what you are saying is your comfortable with a 3/1 split? Honestly, the point of a 4/4 split is to get BOTH bonuses so deck (as a whole) has no big weakness. It's all about getting both bonuses so your deck is solid and you are saying a more likely chance of getting a 3/1 split is better?

Look at it this way:

Dorian, Oxen, Rubie, Wendel, Jeena, Noodile, Tuck and Treeman

Now lets look at the deck with your theory:

Dorian, Oxen, Rubie, Maurice, Wendel, Jeena, Noodile and Treeman

Which deck looks better? Which deck would work better? Which deck would get you 1400 with ease?

I would never use a vanilla (such as Noodile and Dorian) with any less than 5 characters. And if you use Uppers augmented, LOL on Wendel. You'd go Dorian, Nellie, Kazayan, Oxen, Rubie and 3 2* from Vortex (Neloe, Cyb Lhia, C Wing), Skeelz (Redra, Belle, Sasha or Liam) or Junkz (Flangan, Dreen, Veenyle). If you play Wendel, you might as well go Uppers mono. The point of a 5/3 is so that you can upgrade Wendel/ Jose Star/ Samantha, or whichever 3 fillers you'd normally use. Uppers is also a special case because they are so top heavy. I think optimally a 5/3 splits the * count 18/7, 17/8 or 16/9 so you can use a top 3* and a top 2* from the diminished clan, like say Deea/ Cyb Lhia/ Neloe, T Gaank/ Cyb Lhia/ Neloe or T Gaank/ Deea/ Neloe.

I don't like a 3/1 splits either but it's not really getting through to you that 5/3 and 4/4 produce almost exactly the same # of 3/1 splits. A 5/3 lets me have a better chance of winning my 3/1 splits. It's a compromise. The only way to avoid 3/1 splits is to go mono. Mono is fine above 1300 when you don't hit many Piranas or Nightmare anymore.

It's all about the current metagame where both Nightmare and Piranas are very weak... bring back Kolos, Gumbo, Smokey Cr and Bonnie Ld and you'd feel differently about mono.

Lol i use 6/1/1 splits and did pretty well dont call me retarded please.

check this deck:

Herman, Nellie, Oxen, Rubie, Harold, Wendel, Spiaghi, chiara

lol well... it was a survivor deck but any improvements?

That deck got me to 1433 and you are calling it bad? I mean seriously. Look at the deck, look at how it works and compare it. I also dislike (with a passion) your proposal deck. This was a SOA heavy week and Nellie, Kazayan and Oxen would be eaten alive and your 2*'s Vortex will be as the same use to Bob Joby in ELO (meaning they're pointless).

I don't mean to sound like a ass but people look upon your logic and think "wtf?". Look at it from a logical point. 4/4 splits work better, no matter which way you put it. You get the best of both worlds (bonuses wise) and ideally you want both bonuses, that doesn't always happen - nothing you can do about that. But minimizing the chance honestly isn't logical, no matter what way you put it.

Ask anyone who has ever topped in ELO if a 5/3 split is better then a 4/4 split. I think you will find the same answer every time.