offline Dejekt Senior  
Friday 29/03/2013, 01:27

Why is that a clan that is rarely viable has so many banned characters? Not even overpowered characters banned either, the current ban list really needs to be looked at and reconsidered for the current state of the game.

Lea for example is a 6/2 2star SoB and is perma-banned. She is slightly better than flannagan in mono but much much weaker in half, and much weaker to soa, yet he is free to use. Compare to Angelo too, 6/2 2star with SoA(which is stronger than SoB) and his clans bonus gives -12 attack and is activated even in half, which is a better bonus than the rescue +12 attack considering the flexibility of it, but pretty equal mono vs mono. There are countless examples of similar cards out there now that are better and not banned.

I believe elvira needs to be looked at too, shes definitely a strong card but 6/4 SoA 3star just isn't overpowered anymore.

offline ghelas Titan E X C A L I B U R
Friday 29/03/2013, 05:01

The short answer is that Rescue is a broken clan, in which double olding is a totally viable strategy. All Rescue cards should be banned. Every single one. smiley

offline Ambrelo1134 Titan  
Friday 29/03/2013, 05:18


Rescue is a broken clan?????

offline Thai_231 Veteran 3LO MA$T3R
Friday 29/03/2013, 07:16

Rescue is a victim of the UR Elo team. In my opinion, Elo now is boring than it was, in the past, more cards were used compare with the present. Elvira and Lea doesn't deserve their bans, and so are many other cards from other clans. The result of these bans is now I see the same cards everyday, this feeling is so sick.

offline 0_The_Oracle Imperator Open Casket
Friday 29/03/2013, 09:09

I actually kinda agree with ghelas after some time testing with rescue. i laughed the first time he said rescue is broken, but now i see why. while it is true that a mediocre hand of rescues is fairly bad, a good hand of like 16 stars rescue is almost unbeatable. thus, double olding IS a viable strategy that can win you almost 20% of games automatically if played right.

@dejekt did you say half decks?!? thats an invalid argument sorry. rescue doesnt exist in halfs. angelo is a bad comparison, SoA and SoB function differently. flanagan is more like it, lea and him are about the same, but lea used to have more threatening teammates.

while it is true that montana counters rescue pretty nicely in most cases, montana has a HECK ton more weaknesses. some might overlook that min. of 8, but it pretty much takes away their ability to old (zero pill). while 1 pill is not that much, using that on 2 cards is already 2 pillz, which can make a huge difference to the game.

then, comes uppers and sakrohm. these clans are awesome counters to montana, but kinda not that good versus rescue. reason? minimum.

elvira.. mm.. i might agree to a certain extent but they will need to take something away then (cliff or sledg).

all in all, to sum up rescues are powerful, because of fairly powerful base stats (sledg, cliff, even glosh/ ghoub) and their bonus. hands down best bonus in game. this bonus allows them for a HUGE margin of error. my opponent can perfectly read 2 rounds, and end up 50-50.

offline Araeya Master  
Friday 29/03/2013, 16:56

The comment about halfs is accurate imo, they are FORCED to play mono where other clans have the flexibility to play in halves. And the Angelo comment is pretty spot on imo, it's widely accepted that SoA is the best ability in the game, and thats why roots/gheist are better than pirana/nightmare if the cards were equal. Montana is also a super powerful clan with tons of great cards (and they keep making new cards for them). When was the last time you saw a rescue deck do well in elo?

offline ghelas Titan E X C A L I B U R
Saturday 30/03/2013, 12:47

Yep. Exactly what Oracle said is what I've been getting at, and then some.

Imagine this situation. Your opponent is playing Rescue, and they drew a pretty strong hand. You're playing, well... Anything other than Montana, SoB, or Rescue.
They lead with a card that you can't afford to just let through. Something like Buckler or Suzie or Anita, depending on what you have in your hand.

You GUESS that they wouldn't pill their first card hard. But their hand is strong, they have little to lose by dropping something like 4 pills on it -- they will still be forcing a lot of pills. So you respond accordingly with 5-6 pills on your card.

Oops. It's the old opener! Even though you were only off by a few pills in guessing what your opponent was going to play, now the game is a 50/50 at best. For round 2, you CORRECTLY guess that your opponent is going to old again -- but you still need to waste a couple of extra pills to overcome the Rescue bonus.

Now about half of your pills are gone, and your opponent still has all of his, and they saved their best cards for round 3 and 4.

Do you see where I'm going with this?

offline ghelas Titan E X C A L I B U R
Saturday 30/03/2013, 16:00

To clarify...

I am not saying "Rescue has too many strong cards" or "Rescue is overpowered as a clan."

What makes Rescue broken is that they can often win without, well...
Using any strategy.
At all.

No other clan can do this, and no clan should have EVER been able to do this.

offline Dejekt Senior  
Saturday 30/03/2013, 16:32

It works that way with other clans too if you overpill them by 4 and they play attack manip. They have a big advantage over non-stop/non-manip clans but that isn't really an issue, clans are meant to be strong vs some and weak vs others.

Just strict bonuswise they're on pretty even ground with montana (who i think has just as degenerate a bonus, and much better cards to go with it, why else do you think they had 3 ban votes this week?). Vs uppers they have a +2 bonus, not a very big deal. Vs sakrohm/sentinels/junkz they have a +4 bonus, again it does help but it's small enough to be only 1 pill difference assuming no other manipulation is present.

Then you move on to the stop clans, vs piranas/nightmare they lose their bonus completely. Vs Roots/Gheists they lose the use of their abilities completely, and their abilities are generally the main thing that make the clan work since their powers are generally mediocre at best and have to rely upon the ability.

Is the rescue bonus good? Yes, it's very good. But I don't think it's really any more unfair than montana who not only have far better cards to pair with it, UR seems to think it's a good idea to keep designing new powerful cards for. Like angelo, moses, etc. Junkz is in the same spot honestly, with the newer cards they've gotten their lineup is very strong, temorh, romana, flanagan, qubik, etc.

offline 0 Nomi Titan  
Sunday 31/03/2013, 00:16

There's no such thing as "rescue too crippled". Rescue can't be crippled enough.

Answer to this subject

Clint City, day.