offline wasteroftime Titan Open Casket
Thursday 16/05/2013, 02:20

Decided to give elo another shot this week. probably will be the 5th or 6th week this year so far.

i have to say that ELO is now far slower than it has ever been. due to the huge amount of nuking cards, people are overthinking their moves each round. I understand this is not a speed format like DT. But do we really need 3 minutes each to think about each move?

some of it can be accounted to less experienced players who do not see that the game is a sealed win/loss and so they dont quit or play out the rounds to get the win. some of it is simply due to overthinking.


guys i flip a coin on 50-50s, there is no need to "read my mind". flip a coin and hope

offline M-Bison Titan Wise Men Distracted
Thursday 16/05/2013, 03:13

I cry on 50/50s because I lose them most the time haha smiley

offline WMDuessel Guru Wise Men Distracted
Thursday 16/05/2013, 03:53

I don't really mind the ELO time limit, you can multitask while waiting.

On 50/50s: I always go for third round full-pill. Of course against you ELO forum guys I'm not going to be as predictable smiley

offline JO3SHMO Imperator Wise Men Distracted
Thursday 16/05/2013, 05:54

The time limit is fine in my personal experience. If someone wants to spend 2 minutes to pick their move, then I'm happy for them to do so.

I appreciate that it is a bit silly to spend the full 2 minutes on a straight up 50/50 coin toss. Same goes for the 4th round which should not be dragged out. But in a regular round where there are a number of variables, I like to have 2 minutes to pick the best option (or what seems like it at the time). smiley Doesn't mean I always use it, but I'm glad it's there.

If I ever spend a long time trying to read your mind on a 50/50, it is not because I am actually thinking. It is probably because I am dwelling on the unfortunate situation that I may lose 20 ELO points for guessing wrong. smiley

Also, has anyone else noticed that "wasteroftime" is commenting on other people time wasting in ELO. smiley I just found it a bit humorous. smiley

offline HHM_Dota2 Titan Hip Hop Messiahz
Friday 17/05/2013, 06:51

I read this whole thread waiting for my opponent to play his move.

offline UM_AaaBattery Moderator URBAN MADNESS
Friday 17/05/2013, 10:42

They were probably reading the thread too lol

offline ghelas Titan E X C A L I B U R
Friday 17/05/2013, 22:46


On the contrary, "mind-reading" has become an important part of ELO. A lot of people analyze how their opponents played so far and how much time they're taking and make decisions based on that. I find that high-level ELO players take the timer into consideration in a big way when deciding how to react to a play. Sometimes an excessive wait is... simply a deliberate, if under-handed, way to make sure you're not giving any extra clues to your opponent!

Consider the following.

When you are attacking and you play FAST, you tell your opponent that you've already had your mind made up about the move you're going to make. In all likelihood a fast play is an all-in or an all-out move, not dictated by math.

When you play moderately fast (I think the average for this is about 25-35 seconds but I'm guessing a bit here) you tell your opponent that you took time to do some math. You've probably considered a couple of possibilities or at least the reaction you desire from your opponent, and either counted out the number of pills you need to win against a card that will block for up to X pills this round, or to 100% make sure you secure a win in some subsequent round.

When you play rrrrrreeeeeeeeaaaaaaaalllly slow you could be
-tabbing in and out of the game or otherwise distracted
-unsure about the move you're making
-trying to goad your opponent into thinking that you are NOT bluffing, as bluffs tend not to be 2-minute decisions

offline ghelas Titan E X C A L I B U R
Friday 17/05/2013, 22:49

-at very high levels sometimes the opposite is true: knowing that your opponent may anticipate a bluff on a long timer from another high-rated player, you actually don't bluff. Insert the most appropriate Princess Bride quote here.

Just something to think about. You will definitely notice high-level ELO players making psychological plays off the timer in these and other exciting ways if you just keep track. smiley

offline wasteroftime Titan Open Casket
Friday 17/05/2013, 23:02

Lol "mind-read" all you want
it makes no difference mate.

you might feel it makes a difference in the outcome. im sure it does make difference in the experience of playing. but keep those two things apart.

i guarantee you, even the all time top 10 ELOs player will not mind read me in a one-off game of ELO. In a series of say best of 5... then we can hypothetically start talking about "mind-reading" your opponent

edited by wasteroftime friday 17/05/2013, 23:02

offline ghelas Titan E X C A L I B U R
Friday 17/05/2013, 23:49

You're probably right in regards to yourself, but given that the average ELO hero plays quite a bit, certain trends start to emerge... And people capitalize on them, consciously or subconsciously doing things to help their bluff game, etc. As you face some of the same opponents again and again, you tend to pick up on their play styles as well. So playing the timer is, generally speaking, not a waste of time (at least from what I and other guys who have/do make t100 regularly in my guild have observed.)

Answer to this subject

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