Hey guys so I will just start us off. I dont get how lizbeth is on top of the charts??? I mean for 1 less damage, you get lulabee, which is FAR more stable than lizbeth. I know, different clans, but Ulu is not that bad by themselves. + there are many replacements, and lizbeth is what, like 60k? this is ridiculous.
I think Dorian is quite borderline as well, uppers can still do pretty well without him. Herman, hefty, even lady are all replacements for dorian, i mean i know he is strong against SoA, but thats it!. Herman is actually more threatening than dorian in many matchups minus gheist/roots.
Clover/Malicia/Leela/Lucy/Diana/Ella, Noemi, Wanda is pretty well off.
Clover, Malicia, Diana, Leela, Lucy, Chiara, Ivana, Wanda. Arguably you could use Charlie over Leela.
@ DB-Stillborn I'm trying to make a full deck with PC! Ivana over wanda is a choice though.
Do you really have a problem with diana? Even against her worst enemy, SOA, she does fairly well. Compare her to qubik (an often banned card). 7,3 and attack +8 vs. 8,4.
Nomi, you're right. Chiara does better than noemi. (but doesn't have the bonus so has less synergy)
Charlie over leela is also a pref.
I noticed that my deck depends on the PC dr and defeat thing too much and your deck does not.
Our setups both have advantages. For example, yours is more stable. SOA and SOB doesn't hurt as much. Mine, on the other hand could win with just one win. (Yours can do that sometimes too)
I'll try your set-up Nomi.
@Ambre1134 sorry, i thought you were talking about banning all of these cards.
Back to lizbeth:
there are not only just some specific examples that beat the card:
while SoA is a major weakness, in jungo, cards like:
radek: even edge but fewer stars so radek wins.
pegh: negates damage
buba: higher power
yes it is great against attack manipulation, but point it is easily countered.
Lizbeth deserves the ban: but only if dalhia gets banned .
I have dalhia myself and I like using it but it can only be used 1st or second turn. It is more scary than lizbeth though.
Lizbeth deserves the ban because it can be used anytime and can be very scary. After a win with dalhia, you never now if I would pill 2 on lizbeth, all pill fury on lizbeth, pill moderately on lizbeth, or bluff lizbeth. (It is quite hard to fit in 2 5*s though) A power house is what piranas need. for example, a dalhia player can lose the game first turn if dalhia is pilled wrong. But with 2-3 pills on lizbeth, they either over pill or let it through. (neither is a crazily big loss)
Liz is just a easy 7 damage! 9 power helps get it through and SOA can be missed. Bluff or pill, its a good card (no big weakness other than SOA and that can be missed.)
Yes: I shall list liz's small weaknesses:
Saki (its good against everything Saki Rocks
DR - Clover/Pegh/Uranus/Vermyn N/Spiaghi etc (really bad against these but can be avoided.
PR (coining the phrase)- Spyke, caelus, robb (all are permabanned though) (the unbanned ones are radek, ralph, mona etc) (Id give the edge to lizbeth when against mona. Tied against the rest.)
SOA ability, nothing to explain about this one. (Haaken, wyre)
All of liz's bigger weaknesses can be avoided. (DR, SOA)
Therefore she deserves a ban... but less than dalhia.
I'm not an expert, but i have tried piranas before.
Hmmm... What do you guys say about Yayoi?
Ok, here is my beef with current bans: how is arkn perma banned, yet gertjan isn't even temp banned? Arkn (2*): 1pill= 15att, 4 damage SOA, almost no other useful attack manip in the entire clan. Gertjan (3*): 1 pill = 26 attack, 4 damage SOA, clan filled with other high power, good attack manip. cards. I get that he is support...but really, that makes him more ban-worthy, as maybe people would be less likely to play mono roots.
A good person to compare gertjan to is Elvira. I think I know why Elvira is and gertjan is not. Ability soa u will usually try to hit the opponent's best or at least a very useful ability. To add to that, u can dodge stop cards! Bonus soa is uncontrollable and cannot do that and gets crushed by Nightmare and piranas while soa ability crushes those clans