offline Fanta Pants Guru TRiNiTY
Thursday 11/07/2013, 05:45

After been away for awhile I've come back and I see new cards, a new clan, changes to the ELO banned card list and am now lost in rapidly changing meta game which is nothing like it was when I left.

I don't know if other people have a cycle to when they play (E.G. University Holidays) but I know that mine is very much a cyclic system. So I don't really know how the meta game has changed over this period of time.

I also play pokemon in an online simulator and it's meta game changes as well. However I find it far easier to adapt to the new meta game as every month they release usage statistics on the pokemon been played in each tier. Percentage of teams they're on and over team strategies E.G. Weather or no weather stall E.C.T.

What I would like to see introduced is a similar system to this but instead of tiers have formats E.G. Tournament, ELO, Survivor (Extended and ELO). With it broken down into what % of people play what clan and then the breakdown of characters in those clans.

Clan- Ghiest 26% of all teams


Mechakolos 38% of all teams that played ghiest

This would allow us the best insight into the meta game and greatly enable player who haven't played in awhile to reenter the game.

Below Is the latest example for pokemon—-june-2013.3485472/

I know that this would be a huge undertaking and that the sytems would need tweaking for weekly bans but I feel we need it

offline CB Shango Master Clintz Bank
Thursday 11/07/2013, 07:34

But the problem with that is if stats show 60% gheist usage people will build there decks around "stop:" cards

offline DeepEnd Imperator Limit Break
Thursday 11/07/2013, 15:37

Why that would be problem?

Statistics would create more accessible meta-game, currently metagame is open mostly to clans that have active players who are willing to keep track of used clans/cards in persistent manner, but open statistics would help average players to create decks that can compete - or even super-simplified "last hour most used clans/cards" fast check would help casuals to use metagame elements.

offline CB Shango Master Clintz Bank
Thursday 11/07/2013, 16:57

Well I took it as lets say it is 60% Gheist in ELO one week and I was part of that 60 I'd just dislike the thought of someone building their deck around the usage of clans in a game mode. Like if I was in an event I wouldnt want someone to know what clans I'm using. But I think there are elements that could work with this idea

offline Tanto89 Titan X. LycurguS .X
Thursday 11/07/2013, 19:52

I think it is a good idea.. instead of UR insisting to change the meta game by themselves, it is better for us to change it
if 60% is gheist, clearly gheist is OU (overused). if people build the counter of it, I don't think it is wrong. then what you need to do is to adapt and change your deck. it allows greater degree of variation. the OU, counter of OU, counter of counter, counter of counter of the counter. people will play serveral decks.

People will not be able to see your deck. they will just gonna be able to tell that one clan dominating the others in certain mode.
if they put a lot of "stop" card, they will be demolished by people who play normal deck. it is one way to balancing the game. lowering the power of the OU clan, and getting more variety of clans that can be used.

it happened so many times. take an example when rescue release. everyone using it and we know it from playing. and then the counter comes, either using uppers, montana, or sakrohm.
another example is caelus cr, it is not rare people bringing trish with them
IMO, adding statistic will only add tactics in the game, we already know there is a dominant clan / even card in the game, such as before uppers montana is the power house, or caelus cr is a broken card, or spyke demolish many cards in the game. or gheist is very good in ELO. by putting statistic, it gives us concrete evidence on what we know before. by using this statistic, we can make a meta that is not stale, but growing.

offline Bemmoth Titan  
Thursday 11/07/2013, 23:15

It would be a nice addition, but wouldn't this essentially puts cards into a somewhat tier list, and demote deck creativity.

offline Fanta Pants Guru TRiNiTY
Friday 12/07/2013, 03:12

First of all no one knows what you are using specifically are using but they do know general game trends. If you choose to follow them then they may have an advantage.

Isn't there already unofficial tiers?

Why play sentinal when you can play gheist.

Why play morlha when you can play arnk.

If anything I would argue that it increases deck creativity. By playing with the lesser used cards you are giving yourself the surprise factor.

The types of stats I would like would be

1.)Clan usage Percentage (In all formats)
2.)Card Usage within each Clan (In all formats)
3.)1350 Stats for Elo (Only players with an Elo value of 1350 cards count)
4.)15+ survivor stats for the survivor formats
5.) Final Day of Play (What cards are been used on the day before ELO finishes (AKA what will get me 1300 easily))

This is also a way of determining future bans with "suspect testing" where cards which clearly over centralize the game can be considered for banning. (This isn't necessary it's just a thought, lets not turn this into pokemon).

Overall I don't think that the statistics will reveal anything startling (to long term players) but will rather confirm what we already know and to some extent give a quantitative comparison of the clans and cards used.

offline Bemmoth Titan  
Friday 12/07/2013, 03:51

I guess there is an unofficial tier list, but I see if more of a usability list.

Morlha isn't a "bottom tier", but rather, she is "useless" in current game. With so many cards having better power and damage, people will use the stronger. However, putting a % on who uses what, more people will flock to higher % cards. If a new player sees that 50%+ of people use Murray, they'll go for Murray for a Sakrohm deck.

True that surprise factor could make people use different cards for different decks, but the majority will go after the high % cards instead of trying to play with lower % cards.

There is actually a debate about tier lists. Is a character top tier really because they're the best, or because more people use them so more things are learned and are bottom tier really the worst, or because less people use them so less things are learned from them.

In this game it's not really that case. A card will not (or barely) raise or drop in tiers because of who uses them. Since the abilities, bonuses, and stats are set, once those are known, there is nothing more to learn about them. The only thing you would need to know is when to play that card, but that comes more with playing the game and not entirely on the card itself.

offline Tanto89 Titan X. LycurguS .X
Friday 12/07/2013, 05:55

IMO we don't need an entire range of card percentage
maybe like top 3 cards per clan. it allows people (to some degree) guessing which card that people will use for sure.
it is, makes people become aware of good cards and lean toward it. and also, this can be used by people who plays on the market to dominate these cards. however it is not like we already see many people trying to destroy price of cards..

so my idea: percentage of the clan usage (should be divided by room? for example ELO, DT exxtended, DT standard, DM, etc. or can be exclusively for ELO)
top 3 cards % usage per clan
and then like Bemmoth said: usability list: for example top 3 below until 2% of usage of a card will be included in the list "usable"

so something like this (the list comes out per week or something?):
gheist: 60%
top 3 cards:
leviatonn 65%
arkn: 60%
mecha kolos 40%

usable list (no percentage shown and divided by stars and then A-Z list):
platinum, elke, ludmilla, mok, wurmhol, z3r0 d34d, ernst, klawz, dolly, luba, dr saw, anibal, methane, wardom, etc (too lazy to list all of them)

how about this one? they do tell people the top 3 cards in the clan, but most likely the top 3 will be 3 stars or so (unless the 5* really a power house that everyone uses..)

*hmm.. I don't know, I really want to make it top 1 card for each star, but it will make the whole thing pointless? (as Bemmoth said everyone will use the same cards) this problem is so annoying lol..

offline JO3SHMO Imperator Wise Men Distracted
Friday 12/07/2013, 13:41

The format election actually gives an indication of which clans get played, as well as the top 4 cards from each clan.

Lets look at a couple examples of the cards that come up in the format election for each clan.

Junkz - Qubik, Romana, Tremorh, Flanagan. Yep, that's pretty accurate.

All Stars - Marina, Saki, Randy, Jessie. Mhmm.

Roots - Tuck, Noodile Cr, Rico, Yookie. Yup.

Notice how Freaks don't make the format election (other than Bogdan who was already banned)? They weren't one of the 13 or so most played clans last week.

Obviously it won't tell you what's going on in the CURRENT week, but it basically tells you the 'go to' halfdeck (or most selected cards in mono) for a particular clan.

The cards released from temp-banning that particular week will obviously have a fair impact in the ELO meta, and will also not appear on the format election until the following week. Minor flaw. smiley

Answer to this subject

Clint City, day.