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Is All Stars Invincible?

Is All Stars Invincible?
Thursday 03/06/2010, 07:42
UmExcuseMe - Imperator English

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92 messages
Is All Stars Invincible?
UmExcuseMe - Imperator English - Thursday 03/06/2010, 07:42

Their -2 opp. power ability makes it just so powerful... Is there any REAL counter?

Seriously though, are there any decent clans or decks in ELO that have a consistent advantage over All Stars when Marina, Striker and Robb are all available? When you add in Eyrik, that's a massive -3 opp. power, and All Stars have cards with both high power (e.g., Marina, Jessie, Stacey, Robb with ability) and damage (e.g., Striker, Randy), and I'm not even talking about their 5* cards. Sure, there are decks that can compete on an even footing, but are there any that are better?
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41/92
UmExcuseMe - Imperator English
Monday 07/06/2010, 17:36

Shadowcouncil, I never claimed to have awful trouble against AS when playing Piranas. However, I do feel that it's a pretty even contest. I've not found my Piranas deck to be much stronger than AS (of course, I don't have Dalhia and Smokey Cr, so maybe that's a significant difference).

All of the cards you mentioned have their damage reduced to 1 by Ashley or Marina, except for Dalhia, Ulrich (down to 2), and Kristin (down to 2 without confidence). So yes, a given card could win pill for pill, but how many pills did you spend to deal that 1 damage? Or do you run the risk of not pilling enough to get hit for 4-6? Same goes for overpilling. It's great if the opponent also throws pills on, but not so good if he tosses a sacrificial card, or worse, pills just enough to beat your card.

Perhaps it's my play style, but it's more likely the fact that I'm a relative newbie and don't have the strongest cards. Since I'm skint, I've gone for some of the cheapest clans, namely Piranas, Montana, La Junta (got my Emeth from a pack) and Freaks, and various combinations thereof. Aside from Piranas, who fare ok, the other three clans are awful against AS, and Caelus shuts down Piranas. Last week, I actually faced a Striker-Marina-Robb-Caelus hand.

Anyway, I will continue to earn clintz and upgrade my collection in anticipation of the next All Stars bonanza, and try out some of the deck ideas posted here. In the meantime, I'll be placing all my ELO ban votes on Marina every week.
42/92
SoPunny-Zack - Veteran - Time Conquers All English
Monday 07/06/2010, 17:41

I'm surprised anyone (from what I've seen) Hasn't mentioned this. Luck of the draw Sure, AS are pretty over powered, but they have a 3 2 star's they've gotta use if they use Eyrik. Imagine if they got Jessie, Stacey, Ashley and Randy? Most hand's could beat that easily, and Piranas/Nightmare would beat that easily.
43/92
St3f - Guru ελληνικά
Monday 07/06/2010, 17:53

@Shadowcouncil

Striker can beat you Tula and Ulrich, stops your pill and attack abilities and I dont think that you will put 7 pillz on Hawkins in case Striker has 7 pillz.
Jessie and Stacie can beat all of your pirana cards.
Randy can beat Tyd, smokey and every other 4* and 5* star on your deck.
Robb beat everyone exept from taljon and Tula.
Marina can damage reduce every card of yours.
When they have Eyrik ate their side Jessie is a beast same goes with Marina because they can beat your dalhia.

Still think that Piranas win vs All Stars?

It isn't only you and we don't have a proof that you actually beat them with ease.(pls don't bring screenshots etc in your next post, you may beat them but If 100 players come here and say the same as you how can we belive them all?)


Anyway in All Stars week I am preety sure atleast 40% of the top 100 are playing with All Stars. (I would have put more here but I am not so sure.)
44/92
Z4KALW3 - Guru
Monday 07/06/2010, 20:05

Some of your list is just plain untrue.

"Jessie (R) and Stacie can beat all of your pirana cards"

Nope. Against Jessie, Tyd and Dalhia both have a +1 power advantage. Tula and Hawkins, if attacking first, win pill for pill.

"Randy (U) can beat Tyd (C), smokey and every other 4* and 5* star on your deck."

Nope. Tyd is a 3*, too. Randy and Tyd are absolutely even in terms of attack potential. Whoever goes first wins pill for pill. Same with Smokey Cr. Smokey Cr has a strong advantage as he regains +3 pillz and can overpill with his attack.

"Robb (R) beat everyone exept from taljon and Tula (C)."

Again, no. Tyd runs even with him. Whoever goes first has a pill for pill advantage.

"When they have Eyrik (R) ate their side Jessie (R) is a beast same goes with Marina (R) because they can beat your Dalhia (U)."

As you obviously didn't read the post your contesting, go back and take a look. I said both clans draw Eyrik to make things even.

""Still think that Piranas win vs All Stars?"

What do you mean "win" Vs. AS? If you mean do I think they can hold their own, then yes I certainly do and the raw numbers back me up on this. If you mean do I think Piranas steam roll them, then obviously no. I didn't say that, not once.

And as to you pointlessly bashing my integrity, I honestly couldn't care if you believe me or not. I'm pretty sure most will see my posts as honest depictions of experience.
45/92
Z4KALW3 - Guru
Monday 07/06/2010, 20:15

Excuse:

"I've not found my Piranas deck to be much stronger than AS"

I didn't say they were much stronger. It's pretty much an even contest (draw depending, of course).

"So yes, a given card could win pill for pill, but how many pills did you spend to deal that 1 damage?"

Walling cards at the expense of low damage is a tactic that's very viable in elo. You don't need to KO, you just need to come out on top.

"Same goes for overpilling. It's great if the opponent also throws pills on, but not so good if he tosses a sacrificial card, or worse, pills just enough to beat your card."

Right. It's /all/ based on how you pill. Which was my point.

-

And Montana are not awful against AS. Their bonus balances them out pretty evenly.

Tbh, you're comparing the best that AS has to offer against your admittedly cheap and relatively weaker decks. Of course they're going to seem ridiculously OP if you go up against their strongest with your clan's mid range offerings.

"and Caelus (R) shuts down Piranas."

Caelus is a ridiculously OP card that shuts down a massive amount of clans and cards.

Ulu Watu, Bangers, All Stars, and anything 10 power and over can deal with him, though, so AS aren't the only counter available.
46/92
Z4KALW3 - Guru
Monday 07/06/2010, 20:29

Spreader:

"how is Eyrik (R) (R) vs Dalhia (U) (U) 6 vs 7 power?"

That's my bad entirely, for some reason I was remembering Eyrik as a 7/5. Shool-boy error. They're on even footing.

However, Dalhia does have the early game advantage as she can overpill a little due to her ability.

""and Kristin with her ability can take out any of the AS that isn't Jessie"

Marina is a pill for pill contest.

Remember, we're only talking about the deck the OP gave us and not the entire clan.

-

Remove Dalhia from the equation entirely, however. I just realised the deck wouldn't fit both Eyrik and her. Regardless, Dalhia was a relatively weaker counter due to her 5* status, so it's really doesn't harm the Piranas' cause.
47/92
Dweezil - Veteran - TRiNiTY English
Tuesday 08/06/2010, 00:37

Rescue beats All Stars often (for me at least). As has been said, All Stars rely on their power manip. to win matches. Rescue has 2 staples with SoB (Kerry and Lea) AND it has massive attk. manip.! Attack manipultaion is the achilles heel of All Stars. In general, they have fairly low power and use their abilities and bonus to supplement. Rescues are the perfect counter to that style!
48/92
UmExcuseMe - Imperator English
Tuesday 08/06/2010, 09:39

@shadowcouncil

We seem to be spending a lot of posts agreeing with each other. So it's settled: we both agree that Piranas and AS are a reasonably even contest. However:

"And Montana are not awful against AS."

I have to disagree there. Montana have two main weaknesses: low base power and low damage, and they are both ruthlessly exploited by AS. Their lack of a good SOA means Ashley and Marina are effective against every card (especially Edd since his SOB is courage-based). Striker also severely hampers cards like Oscar, Mona and Prince Jr, and can quite easily get in 6 damage with 4-5 pillz.

the only good Montana card I don't have is Mona. Montana is my first clan, and I have lots of experience with it. Maybe I'm just a poor player, but in my opinion AS trumps Montana.

@Dweezil

The problem with Kerry is that her SOB is courage-based, so Ashley or Marina can see her coming knock her down to 2 damage. The problem with Lea is that she's already at 2 damage. Rescue is probably better than Montana vs AS, but once again I believe it's pretty even.

"In general, they have fairly low power and use their abilities and bonus to supplement."

This is my Beef with AS: their abilities and bonus supplement their low power too well. Unopposed, their "virtual" power values are:
Striker 8
Marina 9
Randy = opp power + 2
Robb 10 (!!!)
Jessie 9
Stacey 10
Ashley 7

Subtract 2 from those values with SOB. With SOA, Randy and Robb become 7 and Stacey becomes 8. Not too shabby, eh?
49/92
DrTravelerLoA - Master - Legends of America English
Tuesday 08/06/2010, 22:09

UmExcuseMe:

Not to be mean, but in ELO your OP doesn't really make sense. ELO changes ever week so your statement needs a great many qualifiers to even get started. Are the best All Stars in the field? What about Rescue, Nightmares, etc. Something can be impossible to deal with in ELO one week and the next it can be a joke deck that barely nets 1100.

Personally I do not see All Stars as that big of a deal. Sure, when the best of All Stars are in they do ok, but most clans do ok if their best cards are in. Plus, I've never really felt completely over matched buy them running Rescue or Piranas. I won't claim with clan gives me a huge advantage on the All Stars but I certainly don't feel any sort of dread facing them.

I think any interesting question us this: if we accept All Stars are possibly too good in ELO, what about ELO makes them so powerful when All Stars aren't exactly dominating in T1 or T2?
50/92
DrTravelerLoA - Master - Legends of America English
Tuesday 08/06/2010, 22:11

Ugh. Sorry for the massive typos up there. This is why you shouldn't forum post from an iPod.

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