@Dr Traveler: This thread somehow generated 50+ posts, so I can understand how the message got lost somewhere. In my original post, I qualified: "are there any decent clans or decks in ELO that have a consistent advantage over All Stars when Marina, Striker and Robb are all available?"
I blame myself for the misleading thread title that I copied from another thread on a whim. Let me restate my question (hopefully) more clearly: Is there a deck that can consistently beat mono AS, assuming players of equal skill?
When I say that AS is OP, this does not imply that no other deck will do well in ELO. However, I believe when AS is full strength, it will ALWAYS do well in ELO. This is not true of other clans. This week, for example, most people believe that Sentinel will not dominate despite Copper being available due to Shakra, and Roots will in turn get nullified by decks like Rescue, who will have trouble with Piranas. Last week, Caelus was blunted by AS. What deck nullifies AS? I can't think of any.
That's all I'm saying. And if it's true that no deck can consistently beat AS, then TO ME, that's OP. Others may feel otherwise.
AS aren't dominating T1 or T2 because it is much easier to win with other decks that contain hideously OP cards, like Uppers with Jackie and Zatman, or Montana with Vickie Cr and Lyse Teria Cr.
@wasteroftime: Yes, that's exactly what I've been trying to express. Actually, I'm not sure I can think of a deck in ELO that can have a consistent advantage over a full strength AS even if it doesn't handle other decks well.
@shadowcouncil: Yes, I agree that AS may not beat more decks consistently than any other clan. However, I think no deck can consistently beat AS at full strength in ELO.
@shadowcouncil: When comparing the relative strengths of decks or clans, you have to take luck and skill out of the equation as much as possible. That's why I proposed a theoretical 1000-game test between players of theoretically equal skill; the superior deck should beat the inferior deck, possibly 60-65% of the time. Theoretically.
Using this yardstick, I'm trying to find a deck that is superior to AS, and I can't find one. This does not imply that AS is superior to all decks in direct competition. But it seems that no deck is superior to AS in direct competition.
Also, while I think AS is OP, I don't think it's massively OP or broken (the big 5 is broken). OP just means "more powerful than it should be", which I think they are.
Actually, I'm with you in thinking that maybe all that's needed is the removal of Marina. I know I'll be voting her off the island every week.
Well, that's my point. It's all a little point... less. Hypothetical/theoretical/whatevers don't matter when there are so many variables. it's all a little silly. But I do see your point, I'm mostly playing devils advocate.
I do agree that AS at full strength do, on paper at least, have one of the strongest hands in the game, and that the combination of abilities and clan bonus leaves them without a rock to their paper. However, I think we've established the problem: Marina. remove her and AS drop in power. They really don't have anyone close that can retain their OP status.
However, this really is only relevant when they draw their strongest hand, the rest of the time they can be dealt pretty easily with SoB. The combination of Striker and Marina is really the only thing that hurts.