UmExcuseMe Imperator Thursday 03/06/2010, 07:42
Their -2 opp. power ability makes it just so powerful... Is there any REAL counter?
Seriously though, are there any decent clans or decks in ELO that have a consistent advantage over All Stars when Marina, Striker and Robb are all available? When you add in Eyrik, that's a massive -3 opp. power, and All Stars have cards with both high power (e.g., Marina, Jessie, Stacey, Robb with ability) and damage (e.g., Striker, Randy), and I'm not even talking about their 5* cards. Sure, there are decks that can compete on an even footing, but are there any that are better?
They're awesome. That's IT!
I find Robb and Marina the killer cards sometimes since Robb's almost invincible and the DR capabilities of Marina is perfect and 7 power for an AS is massive. Jessie too is a nightmare to SOA clans and those times when the star count makes the win in addition a 6 life gap to boot with furry if ability is ON. They are not OP i think considering only the Marina Striker combo, adding Eyrik however really makes the mono AS annoying, more annoying than.....all together!.....Hugtana! .... but personally i tend to use them in HD's. HD's always fun. Though it shows that they really are good in mono.
carnivean Veteran Wednesday 09/06/2010, 18:56
--In my original post, I qualified: "are there any decent clans or decks in ELO that have a consistent advantage over All Stars when Marina (R), Striker (U) and Robb (R) are all available?"--
I still say that's an argument that has to be made week to week. If the best All Stars are available and Rescue, Nightmare, and Piranas are all hobbled by ELO bans, then yeah, that week All Stars will probably dominate.
However, even if the best All Stars are available I'd put Hugotana at a pretty sizable advantage against them, assuming Hugo is in. I'd put Morphun/Piranas up there too.
My point was that is really hard to have this discussion when every single week new cards go in and out. We've seen people come in here claiming that Piranas Pill Manipulation is the "ultimate" deck quietly disappear when Sledg pops up from Rescue. We've seen people claim Caelus is "unstoppable" have to quiet down when All Stars schooled him. ELO rapidly changes week to week and quantifying a clans power is a tough call. I suspect strongly that All Stars is just the easiest deck to build, which is a huge advantage when the metagame changes on a weekly basis. Maybe that's the real issue here: They're just so darn easy to build a deck for.
I personally do not consider them overpowered at this point. But in full disclosure, I don't understand the fact that All Stars are seen as "unplayable" when Striker and Marina are out. Its like Alexi and Asporov don't even exist.
UmExcuseMe Imperator Thursday 10/06/2010, 06:14
"However, even if the best All Stars are available I'd put Hugotana at a pretty sizable advantage against them, assuming Hugo (R) is in. I'd put Morphun (R)/Piranas up there too."
I've played Hugotana against AS, and I feel they're at best level. Hugotana suffers from two problems against AS. Firstly, they have low damage, so Marina and Ashley are really annoying. Secondly, for the half of the games where Hugo is not around, they generally get dominated by AS.
I think Morphun/Piranas is the best answer to my original question so far; this deck probably will dominate AS. However, I find Morphun much, much more OP and broken than AS. If Morphun is the cure, he's worse than the disease. But that's another thread...
Z4KALW3 Hero Thursday 10/06/2010, 10:04
"We've seen people come in here claiming that Piranas Pill Manipulation is the "ultimate" deck quietly disappear when Sledg (C) pops up from Rescue. "
Sledge isn't even that bad, same with Kerry. All they have is a +12. Smokey CR has a +21 if you overpill and win, Scubb has a +24 in the same context. Taljion has +12 attack, just one less power.
Of course, overpilling is a risky play, but with a little experience (and luck) you can counter these anti sob cards well.
Off topic: but if Rescue has it's full lime up Rescue v. Piranas goes from being a slam dunk for Piranas to a true test of skill and luck. The only dead card vs Pirana for the typical Rescue deck is Glosh. The rest remain fairly useful.
That's kinda related though to the topic at hand as it's an example of how what's in and what's out across the board can have a wild impact on a clans power level. I think some if the related ELO bans during weeks where the All Stars are all in play gives the impression they're a lot better than they are.
I'll tack on here I don't agree with the comment that Hugotana is at best even with All Stars. Montana has a lot of very good life reducing, power reducing, and damage reducing cards available.
All- Stars and Piranas are the top 2 clans and Piranas just has so many good match ups against All- Stars that they own the match up.
The point is if you have 1 card that can totally own another card to the point that they need 7-8 pills to beat your 2 pills, where it doesn't even make sense to pill. Then you can choose ANY of the 3 other match ups to throw 10 pills and you have your 2 wins guaranteed, the other player has absolutely no counter.
Tula is like that against Randy and Robb. Those are two All- Star staples and she's just there waiting to own them for 4 damage.
And then you have Tyd waiting for Striker. Tyd is basically one of the only cards in the game that owns Striker. Not on the same level as Tula vs. Randy and Robb but now you've neutralized 3 of All- Stars best cards.
The best match up against Marina is obviously Smokey. Smokey wins the tie and Marina is NEVER going to pill more than Smokey.
That leaves Jessie and guess what you let the All- Star player win with Jessie. The All- Star player can dump all 12 pills on her, who cares she gaps 4.
Against the standard Piranas 1/2, the standard All- Star 1/2 simply has no character worth putting any pills into. The matchups own so hard that pilling doesn't make a difference for them. Pilling doesn't help Robb/ Randy against Tula.
If any clan has no weaknesses its Piranas. Their only natural unfavorable match up is Skeelz and even there they can find a way to win with bluff, pill manipulation.
Rescue doesn't beat Piranas even with Sledg. Rescue DOESNT HAVE 8 power. Tyd with 12 pills beats Sledg with 12 pills by 1 attack. You win with Tyd for 4 damage taking out Sledg, you win with Sting at 0 pills for 4 damage since Sting kills any other Rescue in no pills, and for the rest you trade DRs. You win.
MeetZackBlack Hero Saturday 19/06/2010, 14:58
KitsuneKatsumi, They aren't the top 2 clans for a number of reasons:
-They have they're own weaknesses
-New clans are still arriving so you don't know
-Nightmare have the same bonus as Piranas
-Bangers and Ulu Watu neutralise the All Stars bonus.