68 messages
I hear a lot of complaints about ELO mode these days, what with cards like Kalindra and Askai roaming free.
I think these come from people focusing too much on cards that are individually strong and not enough on which cards have good synergy. Right now, building a good ELO deck is a fun puzzle. Which cards are banned this week? What can I do to counter the strong cards that aren't banned? While everyone is busy complaining, I am having the time of my life.
Let's take a look at Kalindra (the card people complain about most) and then take a look at some possible half-decks in two different clans, FPC and Pussycats. Think about using Fei, Chan, Shifou, and Zhu Tang -- three of those cards can easily beat Kalindra pill-for-pill, and the forth lets you threaten a fairly big life-per-damage gap of your own. Think about using Clover, Charlie, Lucy, and Ella in a Pussycats half-deck... All of these reduce Kalindra's damage so hard, that it's impossible for her to be the huge threat she usually is.
I think the definition of "OP" in this game is starting to change. When most players say a card is "OP" they now mean "I have to work to counter this card, and I don't wanna." A card that forces you right out of your comfort zone and into a creative deck you would have never tried otherwise is *good,* both for you and for UR. IMO, you can complain, or you can step up your deck-building game. The choice is yours.
Sincerely,
14/4 with an Ulu/Vortex deck so far this week.
I think these come from people focusing too much on cards that are individually strong and not enough on which cards have good synergy. Right now, building a good ELO deck is a fun puzzle. Which cards are banned this week? What can I do to counter the strong cards that aren't banned? While everyone is busy complaining, I am having the time of my life.
Let's take a look at Kalindra (the card people complain about most) and then take a look at some possible half-decks in two different clans, FPC and Pussycats. Think about using Fei, Chan, Shifou, and Zhu Tang -- three of those cards can easily beat Kalindra pill-for-pill, and the forth lets you threaten a fairly big life-per-damage gap of your own. Think about using Clover, Charlie, Lucy, and Ella in a Pussycats half-deck... All of these reduce Kalindra's damage so hard, that it's impossible for her to be the huge threat she usually is.
I think the definition of "OP" in this game is starting to change. When most players say a card is "OP" they now mean "I have to work to counter this card, and I don't wanna." A card that forces you right out of your comfort zone and into a creative deck you would have never tried otherwise is *good,* both for you and for UR. IMO, you can complain, or you can step up your deck-building game. The choice is yours.
Sincerely,
14/4 with an Ulu/Vortex deck so far this week.
21/68
Sir Ghelas.Is a member since Monday 07/02/11.
Okay....
Okay....
22/68
I question the relevance of the statement above.
23/68
Hate to break it to you, but 2009-2010 was just so balanced than the elo you're defending now.
I told you that you'll never know until you experienced one
I told you that you'll never know until you experienced one
24/68
I agree with wasteroftime
Sorry bout that, but opening rounds in the current elo already set up the game mood
YOu can win either in round 1 or 2 because of the life gap that can be made plus the DR's
While back then if you lose against a Methane in a 12 life format, you can still win that one hit left match by winning the two rounds that can be a KO
Sorry bout that, but opening rounds in the current elo already set up the game mood
YOu can win either in round 1 or 2 because of the life gap that can be made plus the DR's
While back then if you lose against a Methane in a 12 life format, you can still win that one hit left match by winning the two rounds that can be a KO
25/68
I'm sorry, but everything I heard about "old" ELO makes me think it would have been too simple for my tastes. I feel like if you can threaten KO any turn with any card, the game is really 50/50; all about reading your opponent. What you have in your deck in terms of strategy, card combinations, trying to dictate your opponent's hand etc etc did not matter so much... Because let's face it, *any* time you have won a round, you had the option of trying fury KO in round 2 *or* 3.
I have a lot of respect for the older players of the game, but I really can't see how strategy could have been as important in that era. I think if I want to just use small clues to guess what my opponent is thinking and throw strategy out the window, I will go play a "rousing" game of Pictionary or Draw Something.
I have a lot of respect for the older players of the game, but I really can't see how strategy could have been as important in that era. I think if I want to just use small clues to guess what my opponent is thinking and throw strategy out the window, I will go play a "rousing" game of Pictionary or Draw Something.
26/68
Double old, yes that's a strategy
27/68
Well, since 12 life was apparently too simple, with win a round and then threaten K.O. and 14 life is dominated by life-gap 50-50s and Kalindra/Askai derps, how about we try 13 life where 2 hits and life gap are both theoretically viable? I'm kidding of course.
Personally I haven't seen anything too wrong with the ELO mode yet, but I havent looked too hard either. I don't wanna say anything that could be possibly taken as offensive to the devs in fear they ban some more of my Piranas lol.
Personally I haven't seen anything too wrong with the ELO mode yet, but I havent looked too hard either. I don't wanna say anything that could be possibly taken as offensive to the devs in fear they ban some more of my Piranas lol.
28/68
Oooo ... ELO hardcores at work
Interesting points and contradictions ... very interesting indeed. Personally, I liked the 12 life format compared to the current 14 life format. Keep this conversation going
ps: Please do not insult my "manhood" by checking up on my highest ELO score, you might scare away more average joe inputs
pss: ELO was best with Jackie Cr and Zatman FTW!
Interesting points and contradictions ... very interesting indeed. Personally, I liked the 12 life format compared to the current 14 life format. Keep this conversation going
ps: Please do not insult my "manhood" by checking up on my highest ELO score, you might scare away more average joe inputs
pss: ELO was best with Jackie Cr and Zatman FTW!
29/68
I do agree that that darn Bunny is a little too strong, and ELO may be a bit more even without him and Kalindra. But IMO, they are not nearly as OP as most people believe.
I feel like the "best" deck for the week is made up of exactly the cards that everybody complains about: Askai, Azel, add your own pick of Nightmare and Jungo. I've been playing this deck a little, and I have to admit -- it's VERY easy. However, I was able to reach the same 13somethingish scores pretty easily with my Ulu/Vortex deck as well.
Here's what I think the bottom line is, and probably the source of most people's complaints. We have 14 life. We have a lot of good mitigating cards (SoA, DR, to some extent SoB.) We have a lot of +life and LPD options available. What we don't have is a lot of base damage. 8 base damage is rare, and often has some kind of downside, and is only found on 5* cards. BUT, many cards have abilities that increase their potential gap to 8 or much more!
The natural conclusion: A good ELO deck currently *has* to be built around good high-gap cards that are SoA and/or DR resistant. It is natural that NM high poison/LPD as well as the high damage/life gain combo of Jungo 5*s thrives in this environment. But these are just the easiest "big threat" cards to use.
Good synergy is possible with MANY strong 5*s that resist SoA, and many overlooked cards.A clever player can use cards like the seemingly shaky Sayura with great effect. In fact, she was part of my best Top 100 deck.
I feel like the "best" deck for the week is made up of exactly the cards that everybody complains about: Askai, Azel, add your own pick of Nightmare and Jungo. I've been playing this deck a little, and I have to admit -- it's VERY easy. However, I was able to reach the same 13somethingish scores pretty easily with my Ulu/Vortex deck as well.
Here's what I think the bottom line is, and probably the source of most people's complaints. We have 14 life. We have a lot of good mitigating cards (SoA, DR, to some extent SoB.) We have a lot of +life and LPD options available. What we don't have is a lot of base damage. 8 base damage is rare, and often has some kind of downside, and is only found on 5* cards. BUT, many cards have abilities that increase their potential gap to 8 or much more!
The natural conclusion: A good ELO deck currently *has* to be built around good high-gap cards that are SoA and/or DR resistant. It is natural that NM high poison/LPD as well as the high damage/life gain combo of Jungo 5*s thrives in this environment. But these are just the easiest "big threat" cards to use.
Good synergy is possible with MANY strong 5*s that resist SoA, and many overlooked cards.A clever player can use cards like the seemingly shaky Sayura with great effect. In fact, she was part of my best Top 100 deck.
30/68
I always enjoy threads by ghelas. They consistently stir up some very interesting insights.
'OMG LOOK AT SCAPEGOD'S HIGHEST ELO SCORE! SO UN-MASCULINE!"
I'm joking of course, I just couldn't help myself. I agree with you in that the more input the better. I don't know how the term 'Average Joe' came about. Why not 'Average Aaron' or 'Average Michael'? Whatever the case, I like to think I'm an above average Joe, so I will give my little opinion.
I've only actually been playing for a bit over a year (unlike my profile suggests), so I do not have any experience of the 'Old' ELO format. I can only go by what I've been exposed to.
I don't have any problem with the current ELO. No matter what cards you ban or unban, there will always be some that are more powerful than others. By banning all these 'situationally OP' cards it just means the meta will shift towards the 'new' power cards. I admit that the focus these days is on packing the fire power with heavy gap cards, but it's unreasonable to ban them all.
I abuse Askai just as much as the next guy. In fact I look forward to weeks where my rabbit can destroy everyone. But ban Askai and people will just find something else to abuse. People enjoy complaining about things, it's just human nature.
I'm not one to ever say that the game is broken. I will continue to go with the flow and use whatever is available to me. Keep the interesting discussion coming.
'OMG LOOK AT SCAPEGOD'S HIGHEST ELO SCORE! SO UN-MASCULINE!"
I'm joking of course, I just couldn't help myself. I agree with you in that the more input the better. I don't know how the term 'Average Joe' came about. Why not 'Average Aaron' or 'Average Michael'? Whatever the case, I like to think I'm an above average Joe, so I will give my little opinion.
I've only actually been playing for a bit over a year (unlike my profile suggests), so I do not have any experience of the 'Old' ELO format. I can only go by what I've been exposed to.
I don't have any problem with the current ELO. No matter what cards you ban or unban, there will always be some that are more powerful than others. By banning all these 'situationally OP' cards it just means the meta will shift towards the 'new' power cards. I admit that the focus these days is on packing the fire power with heavy gap cards, but it's unreasonable to ban them all.
I abuse Askai just as much as the next guy. In fact I look forward to weeks where my rabbit can destroy everyone. But ban Askai and people will just find something else to abuse. People enjoy complaining about things, it's just human nature.
I'm not one to ever say that the game is broken. I will continue to go with the flow and use whatever is available to me. Keep the interesting discussion coming.
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