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Would: Copy Opp Ability, Be Overpowered?

Would: Copy Opp Ability, Be Overpowered?
Sunday 22/07/2012, 04:32
1san - Imperator English

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62 messages
Would: Copy Opp Ability, Be Overpowered?
1san - Imperator - Black Sea PiranasEnglish - Sunday 22/07/2012, 04:32

So typically, we've had Coppy opp bonus for quite awhile.

It's really a great ability and I'm quite pleased with it. There's just two thing on my mind now; Will Copy Opp Ability ever come, and will it be overpowered once it's here?

So firstly, will it come?

If we follow some old trends...I'd say it's likely!
Here are some examples of abilities that complement each other;
Poison VS Heal
Stop opp ability VS "Stop"
Courage Vs Revenge
- Opp Damage Vs - Opp Life
+ Attack Vs - Attack
- Power VS + Power
+ Pillz Vs - Pillz

And then the one that really makes me think we aren't to far away from Coppy opp Ability: + Life per damage and then after quite some time, Sah Brinak brought us the fabled + Pillz per damage.

So in a nutshell there is a high chance it'll come, but on the the matter of it be to ridiculous to add.

Imagine a typical run of the mill Fang Pi Clang card with; 6 power and 6 damage, then followed up with Coppy Opp Ability.

Now let me run you by some scenarios:

Vs Copper = Potential 11/10
Vs Nobrodroid = 6/10 able to get +4 Pillz
VS Avola = Potential 6/14 !!!
Vs Oscar = Potential 10/10
Vs Sah Brinak = 6/10 and could recover 7 pillz back subtracting the furry
Vs Karrion = 6/8 + the 2 poison means massively dangerous(Ends games fast)
Vs Kenny = Potential 6/24!!!!!!!
Vs Kolos = Potential 6/14
Vs Uranus = Turns into a 6/5 with the ability to stop Uranus in it's tracks
Vs Sasha = Potential 6/10 with +16

Ect...

So is this balanced or not? What do you think?
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51/62
1san - Imperator - Black Sea Piranas English
Monday 30/07/2012, 19:30

Good stuff, I'm seeing here...looks like majority says that it wouldn't be OP. By the looks of it, doesn't look like people are too worried about COA.

Also earlier people were talking about a Sentinel with 8/4 + COA. I don't think that will ever happen, although I really must say with the release of Andy Ld, I was extremely pleased to see another card with the best 3 star base stats of 8/4 and Andy Ld was also given a pretty nice ability to boot.

If only we could get a 3 star, All star with 8/4 and any ability but backlash.

Anyone else feel slightly empty playing All Stars now that Robb left our ranks and became Robb Cr?
52/62
deatheagle8765 - Veteran English
Monday 30/07/2012, 22:40

Copy opp ability should be on a Skeelz card because of the protection and i think that swap opp power and damage would be quite good especially on Ward hg....lolnage
53/62
wats_happenin - Legend - Casual Grind English
Tuesday 31/07/2012, 05:01

I think COA would be interesting, but should only be implemented in certain clans, and in my opinion the ones that are currently a bit lack lustre and falling behind the ELO curve

ie: Giving it to Sentinel, Rescue or GHEIST would be a joke but Skeelz, Pussycats or La Junta maybe it'd be a welcome aid

@Ghelas, unfortunately I agree with Subclavian here...OP cards are ones that force the entire meta to shift around those cards...take a look at this week...its either Berzerk...counters to Berzerk (Roots and All Stars)....or Mono Rescue/Sentinel
There is literally no point in using the other clans which makes ELO life pretty boring.

Trust me after running into Cliff or Spyke for the forty thousandth time you'd be wishing that maybe, just maybe Fang PI or Skeelz will be your next opponent and throw some variety around

However Subclavian I don't agree that banning those big blockers allowed for OP cards to run loose...even with those cards all it'd do is turn the meta back to Mono Piranas and Mono Roots...I mean do we really want that again?

After thinking on it, I don't think any amount of bans will properly stop a certain clans domination....by banning more Rescue will that mean heavy damage clans take centre spotlight? If we ban Sentinel then what will help counter SOB clans and Uppers?

Anyway aside from my rant about ELO....COA would be cool to be implemented....but would have to be thought out carefully with clan selection and the stats of the card to not make it UP or
54/62
flameruler15 - Hero - night school English
Saturday 12/01/2013, 03:01

COA sounds like a great idea. But it does has it's risks and disadvantages with it. Certain Abilities like Backlash or cards with no Ability will waste it. Also the clan the COA is in will affect how good it is too. Overall COA sounds like a balanced ability. Now if only they had Protection: Ability.
55/62
ChangeIsGood - Event team - D-Versified English
Saturday 12/01/2013, 21:33

People think COA is OP, but in reality I don't think it is. I believe it to be a high risk-high reward ability. I mean really, who's gonna throw a Kolos or Spyke when you play the COA card first?

I think a 6/5 5* with COA could be balanced when put in a weak clan.
56/62
E10din - Titan English
Sunday 13/01/2013, 01:34

Please don't necro month old threads guys.
57/62
ghelas - Titan - The Trend English
Sunday 13/01/2013, 02:51

I think this was discussed at length in another thread, and this is the opinion I came away with... CoA is weak because it has the same issue as Opp = Opp Power: it's too easy to play around. CoB is good because your opponent will always have at least two cards with the same bonus, which gives you a pretty good chance of playing "into" the the bonus you want. It's also possible that if your opponent has two bonuses, they will both be equally useful. But if you are copying an ability, there is always a good chance that a smart opponent will SoA it/force you to play against a character with a poor ability/force you to play against a character with an ability that's not compatible with the card's stats. It would usually be worse than just including a card that has a good ability to begin with.
58/62
0 the oracle - Imperator - Open Casket English
Sunday 13/01/2013, 15:22

Lol guys honestly I dont think CoA is overpowered.... as long as you justify the stats. honestly, I just look at it as like SoA, except the 'offensive version' and discourages play of cards with powerful abilities even more.

'oh the oracle what are you thinking against something like copper thats op blahblahblah'

NO. if you think about it, CoA is honestly just like SoA, but the 'offensive' version. referring to original post:

facing against copper, SoA acts as -5 power oh SoA is op?
facing against Nobrodroid SoA acts as defeat:-4 pillz min. 0, so SoA is op?
facing against Avola (and anything damage related) SoA would be the defensive route, and CoA is the offensive. from this, you can see that CoA is not actually op. but it is however true that CoA and SoA would make perfect partners.

I have to say though that CoA is actually a bit more powerful than SoA, in some situations. for instance:

stop: abilities, no penalties for CoA
Skeelz: goes RIGHT through Skeelz, VERY annoying...

i see people are worried about 1h game enders/1hko but as @ghelas (the wise man) said it is VERY EASY TO PLAY AROUND. just use your noodile on the first turn, and you will be fine =.=

sentinels have been lacking a good SoA card for a long time (elo)

so 6/7 CoA 5* not especially op
59/62
ghelas - Titan - The Trend English
Sunday 13/01/2013, 18:51

The thing is that many abilities are activated by winning or some special condition. Not only would your CoA card have to go up against the card that you want out of your opponent's lineup, but it would also have to win or meet that condition... That is ridiculously easy for your opponent to plan around.

Let's, as an experiment, say that Berzerk gets a POWERFUL 8/5 * CoA!
Now let's say you are fighting a decent Sentinel hand -- Melvin, Flinch, Havok, and Jackson.
Vs Melvin, Flinch, and Jackson your ability is an obvious dud, and your opponent would have to be a moron to let you match up Havok with your CoA card.

"But Ghelas," you say, "you are being too selective with these cards. Sent has a lot of cards with better abilities!"
Okay. Let's take a look at some other potential staples that your opponent could draw.

Vs Coby: Looks good on paper, right? Buuuut it's not: All Coby has to do is be the attacker and he has a 2-pill advantage. Good luck trying to get that extra damage!
Vs Martha: Now we're talking! Assuming you're mono you get a nice attack boost, right? ...Except it doesn't matter -- if Martha was played against this guy, she was played as a "throw away card," a pill forcer. The advantage is made irrelevant by the fact that Martha is not trying to win her round.
Vs John: This actually looks good, no complaints here. A +3 power difference gives you a nice edge (again though, only assuming Mono.)
Vs Tobie: It does nothing.
60/62
ghelas - Titan - The Trend English
Sunday 13/01/2013, 19:14

Vs Harvey: It's just not happening. Harvey will be used on a Courage turn.
Vs Owen: Not sure if it's fair to call him a staple, but copying his ability would be nice. Although Owen beats this theoretical 8-power Zerk pill-for-pill up to 7 pills, so it's still pretty hard to secure that extra damage, even if you match these cards up.
Vs Sammy: This matchup looks great. But again, your opponent will recognize it as a liability and try to play around your CoA card.

Sentinel and Berzerk were clans picked completely at random. If you think about any other two clans in this scenario, you will get similar results. Now, 8/5 on a Berzerk are great base stats, and you can argue that even though the ability wouldn't activate in a useful way very often, it's still a great card... But the difference between "CoA" and "No Ability" here is pretty minor, as you can see. Giving your opponent a chance to control which ability you gain hurts, not having stats specifically built to accommodate your ability hurts, SoA hurts, copying DR or a defeat ability will almost always be useless, etc.

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