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Thursday 07/06/2012, 15:12
-NN_Sarphyrox - Imperator English

Urban Rivals | Free Online Manga Trading Card Game | TCG | MMO
43 messages
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-NN_Sarphyrox - Imperator - Open CasketEnglish - Thursday 07/06/2012, 15:12

I would like to suggest that an option in ur that decides an automatic win or lose.

for example..

in the final round.., player X has 7 life 9 pillz while player Y has 5 and 4 pills life. player X last card is a 5* 8 power 6 damage no ability while player Y card is a 2* 5 power 4 damage no ability. both cards has no bonus activated. with this example player X will surely win.

so why not let the system decide that player X already won skip the final round before player X lags or accidentally click no pills and make fun of himself.

any comments
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11/43
lgeddie_1134 - Hero - wicked souls English
Saturday 09/06/2012, 20:58

I agree with the idea. Surely it would be possible to add up the maximum potential damage, even if fury was used on every card. If I can do it mentally, a computer should. Btw this should work only if the player couldnt lose, even if they wanted to.
12/43
ghelas - Admin - The Trend English
Sunday 10/06/2012, 00:17

I think a few safeguards could be implemented to keep the theoretical "report" button from being abused.
The length of the match could be compared to the maximum time allowed for the match... If the person being reported actually took 50%-60% of the time allowed to play the match, then they may have a slow connection, or may have been reported by a sore loser... On the other hand, if a player consistently wracks up reports that he's taking 80-90% of the allowed time to finish a match, and those reports coincide with him losing, he's probably just being a jerk and deserves some sort of penalty.
13/43
Trippie - Legend - Open Casket English
Sunday 10/06/2012, 09:04

You guys do realise that this is a lot of work on a development team to record and store all of this data, analyse it etc. for a small result as there will always be stallers no matter how much you shorten the timer or make changes...and all it does is lose potential customers for UR by penalising them
14/43
ghelas - Admin - The Trend English
Sunday 10/06/2012, 18:03

@Trippie, I have been a part of several development teams, myself... While this would be a fair bit of work, it would penalize the people who are detrimental to the UR community, and reward constructive players. I'm not going to debate whether it's "worth it" or not, but looking at it as a game developer, it doesn't seem like a bad idea. UR is a community driven game. A community that feels good about the game is more likely to invest money in it -- sometimes just to support further development. (Are you familiar with Kickstarter? That's a great example of a more modern, effective business model than URs, which I feel isn't community-friendly at all.)
15/43
wasteroftime - Moderator - Open Casket English
Sunday 10/06/2012, 18:30

Report button would be abused.... the current report button is already abused -- over 50% of the reported abuse in the current system is not an incident of abuse

auto playing of a round only makes sense in the last round for the losing person who may or may not be stalling. auto-playing for the person about to win doesnt make too much sense (the person might want to fury, save 3 pillz, whatever... or he can make a mistake.... and mistakes are part of this game and it is what makes you improve as a player). Since attacker can make a mistake in counting pillz.... then the losing player should not be autoplayed by the computer.

we all face the same challenges in DT. I can think of multiple times when staller(s) cost me 1-3 games in a DT and more than likely cost me a top 10, top 5, or a DT win. But all I see are my incidents of being stalled against without being aware of how much the other top DT players got stalled out. The DTs where i get top 5 or win.... I can say yes im awesome.... or i can factor in the fact that some of my DT rivals may have faced an extra staller.

Yep stallers can definitely decide a DT... but everyone is having to run that same gauntlet each DT hour, so its alright i suppose. Or we could police that final round stalling..... the stallers will still stall you out for the first 3 rounds, or stretch out a 2 round win into a 3-4 round win. Or maybe reduce that timer even more....

regardless of the changes made, the playing field remains even.... the better DT players will continue to perform better than other players... no rule changes will change that.
16/43
ghelas - Admin - The Trend English
Sunday 10/06/2012, 22:12

@Waster: I'm still as confused by your posts as ever. You make very good points every once in a while, but here again you are making points that just aren't logical. I don't mind if you like to play devil's advocate, but why not at least try to make more pertinent points? You come across as just wanting to argue...

A simple automated system like the one being discussed in this post COULD NOT be abused.
It would make several checks (for example: is the player who was reported technically unable to close the gap? Does he take 95% of the possible match time to "think about it?" Then he is probably stalling deliberately.)
Accumulating enough "red flags" in some short period of time would mean that the player is stalling maliciously, with almost 100% certainty.

A player who hits the "report" button out of spite every time he loses would have no impact on the game. Because his reports do not match the criteria for probable stalling, they would have no effect.

Furthermore, just the presence of this feature would discourage stalling. Many people who engage in it now would think twice if there was some kind of penalty!

You're right that it wouldn't level the playing field much, but this point is also completely irrelevant. Stallers make the game less enjoyable for all of us. It doesn't matter if they effectively ruin DTs or not -- what matters is that they are exploiting the system, and deserve to be punished for it.
17/43
wasteroftime - Moderator - Open Casket English
Sunday 10/06/2012, 23:15

Lots of things make this less enjoyable for many people....
stallers are one of them...
some people see more reasons to be unsatisfied than others

believe me mate, if i was stalling on purpose, no amount of rules you throw my way will change that. staller like trolls will always find a way to ruin the community

anyone playing DT or DM to rank will not stall
stallers will stall, win or lose.... a report feature addresses the losing staller a little bit.
lots of players play this in a separate tab while doing other things sometimes... a bit annoying, but im not about to say lets punish these guys too.

I always wonder, how come we never see post of the nature of.... "the guy quit 1st round!!.. gave me a win i dont deserve... i dont want the win... let me report this guy". Or this "man this guy played so fast... i got unfair advantage as a result"

Stallers do suck, but account for a tiny amount of games we play (we just tend to remember them more).
An auto play or complex report system is not top priority in my opinion... UR should be putting their energy into game balance and future card designs.

and the concept of stalling is relative... a faster player will always see the slower player stalling.

I say give a carrot to fair players instead of using a stick on intentional stallers that will occassionally hit fair players
18/43
ghelas - Admin - The Trend English
Sunday 10/06/2012, 23:53

Waster, there you go again... Do you really not see these arguments as illogical?

It's good to punish bad players. Rewarding good players does nothing to discourage the bad.

You say trolls will find a way to stall, but you fail to explain how. If an automated system bans you after enough offenses, there's not really an easy way to get around that.

I'm one of those players who sometimes tabs out to do other stuff during a match. But I try to be considerate about it. If I realize that I'm distracted to the point of timing out, I either stop playing UR, or stop doing whatever else I'm doing so I can focus up. Whether a player is stalling out of malice or because he found a really funny webcomic doesn't matter to me. If you're wasting someone's time, you're a nuisance, and deserve to be penalized.

Why do you bring up the players who play fast or resign first round? Those players are doing what they feel is right. It doesn't make sense to point out everyone who's NOT being a crappy player. I'm high enough level that I don't have any reason to level anymore, so I resign from every lost match in ELO, but I don't expect a cookie for it.

Last but not least, if UR's developers wanted to use its time constructively, the awkward, shambling beast that is Standard would have stayed dead and buried. Maybe punishing bad players shouldn't be at the very top of the list, but it certainly makes more sense than trying to push the half-baked, unbalanced mode that is Standard.
19/43
wasteroftime - Moderator - Open Casket English
Monday 11/06/2012, 00:27

Ok ghelas set the rules of your system... i will play the role of staller. i guarantee i find a way to stall you without me getting banned

trolls will troll... case in point
stallers will stall

should it be addressed?? sure. is it priority?? oh look... agreement by you. oh wait, its me posting... better find something to disagree with.

so theres the challenge... create your guidelines without making it overly complex (you yourself point out UR cant even fix a matchmaker - so keep it simple)... ill stall. good luck -- youll need it
20/43
ghelas - Admin - The Trend English
Monday 11/06/2012, 02:17

Waster, man....
I'm not pointing out that UR can't fix a match maker, I'm pointing out that they haven't. World of difference.

To answer your challenge:

1st rule: The specific rules of the dang report mechanism are NOT going to be posted up somewhere for all to see, so unless they are leaked by a developer, the stallers won't know them.
2nd rule: ???
3rd rule: ???
4th rule: ???
Etc.

So, go ahead. Put yourself in the role of this theoretical staller. UR just issued an announcement; "We've added a report button to the game that allows any player to report malicious stalling. Each report will be evaluated based on certain criteria, and those determined to be repeat stallers will be temporarily banned for a week. Repeat offenders not discouraged by a temporary ban will be banned for life. Remember to play fair, and please enjoy Urban Rivals!"

Now, PLEASE tell me how you're going to work around these rules when you don't know them?

In case you're wondering, I do have specific guidelines in mind. But more importantly, I'm trying to make the point that you can't "crack" such a mechanical system unless you can see its inner workings. Maybe if you make a few thousand accounts and automate them to stall in different ways, you can gather enough data to make an educated guess as to how to get around this system...

But I don't think even YOU have that much time to waste.

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Urban Rivals | Free Online Manga Trading Card Game | TCG | MMO

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