83 messages
This week in ELO has brought a game balance problem to my attention. Now that Copy Bonus cards are becoming a little bit more prominent, and many clans are getting powerful 8 power cards, SoB clans are starting to feel outdated. In UR's delicate ecosystem, SoB clans were usually a balancing force. They messed up games for clans that have incredibly good synergy between bonus and ability. A good deck had to be able to defend against both SoA and SoB without losing the ability to win rounds.
A good example of how damaging underpowered SoB clans are to the game is Jungo. Askai is currently unbanned, and the vast majority of ELO players are either running him or have tried to run him this week. If SoB clans weren't weak in the current metagame, running Jungo would pose a risk of a low damage draw, even with Askai. Many Jungo staples have mediocre damage, if they are deprived of their bonus. With SoB clans too weak to threaten Jungo, they are becoming overused. The same can be said of All Stars... Deprived of their incredible round-winning bonus, they struggle to secure the rounds they need. However with Saki's arrival, and Robb Cr unbanned, All Stars pack an even bigger round winning punch and gain the ability to wall vs SoB clans.
Has anyone else noticed this? I think Lizbeth is a step in the right direction, but her price puts her out of reach of many players...
A good example of how damaging underpowered SoB clans are to the game is Jungo. Askai is currently unbanned, and the vast majority of ELO players are either running him or have tried to run him this week. If SoB clans weren't weak in the current metagame, running Jungo would pose a risk of a low damage draw, even with Askai. Many Jungo staples have mediocre damage, if they are deprived of their bonus. With SoB clans too weak to threaten Jungo, they are becoming overused. The same can be said of All Stars... Deprived of their incredible round-winning bonus, they struggle to secure the rounds they need. However with Saki's arrival, and Robb Cr unbanned, All Stars pack an even bigger round winning punch and gain the ability to wall vs SoB clans.
Has anyone else noticed this? I think Lizbeth is a step in the right direction, but her price puts her out of reach of many players...
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3/83
Nightmare own ELO dude..ive seen them in some ugly pairings....usually taking advantage of their great 2* and decent 3* Artus/Phyllis/Edwin/Pan....ugh and then there's Azel....O_O
Let's face it Piranas need some help....they need a dr and fast
I hate Piranas in half decks...dont ask why....and their mono needs some beefing
An Artus clone should do nicely
Let's face it Piranas need some help....they need a dr and fast
I hate Piranas in half decks...dont ask why....and their mono needs some beefing
An Artus clone should do nicely
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Mind you, I'm not complaining about Askai and Saki specifically -- I'm complaining about clans that used to have hard matches vs SoB doing great against them now. It's not even that Jungo and All Stars are specifically the problem.
It's the fact that bigger, badder cards released *in many different clans* are starting to make SoB clans seem like a weak choice. Not only is that bad for the SoB clans... It also means that power cards that would have normally been balanced by the existence of SoB clans, aren't.
Nightmare is of my favorite clans, but they don't have even one great round winner. This becomes a liability when you're trying to run them mono, and running them in a half can be somewhat effective... If you're lucky enough to draw the right cards. They're definitely at a disadvantage in the current meta. Piranas, of course, are at a point where they have to rely on 3 round wins to outdamage today's big gap cards.
It's the fact that bigger, badder cards released *in many different clans* are starting to make SoB clans seem like a weak choice. Not only is that bad for the SoB clans... It also means that power cards that would have normally been balanced by the existence of SoB clans, aren't.
Nightmare is of my favorite clans, but they don't have even one great round winner. This becomes a liability when you're trying to run them mono, and running them in a half can be somewhat effective... If you're lucky enough to draw the right cards. They're definitely at a disadvantage in the current meta. Piranas, of course, are at a point where they have to rely on 3 round wins to outdamage today's big gap cards.
7/83
So what your saying is , that UR is doing a great job balancing out clans? ..
Kenny
Cutey And have you actually tried playing half decks? Nightmare are still beast at doing there/
Azel
Karrion They don't have a great 1 round winner? Im thinking UR is doing all it can to balance out clans .
Piranas Nightmare Bezerk Rescue Bangers Ghiest Sakhrom all want help aswell bro .
Kenny
Cutey And have you actually tried playing half decks? Nightmare are still beast at doing there/
Azel
Karrion They don't have a great 1 round winner? Im thinking UR is doing all it can to balance out clans .
Piranas Nightmare Bezerk Rescue Bangers Ghiest Sakhrom all want help aswell bro .
8/83
Shift their roles in the deck...
much like when Roots got nerfed... they quickly became the small support half deck needed to shut down really nasty abilities.
much like when Roots got nerfed... they quickly became the small support half deck needed to shut down really nasty abilities.
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You don't see the triangle apparently. SOB clans often work wonders against attack manipulation clans, but will obviously lose against high base power cards in clans such as FPC, Skeelz
10/83
Rock Paper Scissors...
You can pick paper, and cross your fingers that your opponent picked rock. Etc.
I guess the problem that arises (which I think is the point being made) is that we don't want one of the choices to be less advantageous.
Let's pretend SOB is paper... UR developers have decided to make rock cards that beat paper. Paper used to balance out rock, but because it no longer does, rock becomes stronger and paper declines. More and more people want to use rock simply because it is better than scissors and paper.
That analogy wasn't necessarily the best, but I reckon it says the point well enough. I agree with most people that Nightmare and Piranas are certainly still viable options (particularly Nightmare), but Ghelas has raised a reasonable point. The biggest culprit for the 'SOB decline' (inverted commas because it's arguable) is that most cards nowadays are more ability-heavy.
With SOB it pretty much becomes power vs power, ability vs ability. Not many abilities of Nightmare or Piranas are 'round-winning' abilities (though there are exceptions), so it becomes harder to win rounds. Nightmare make up for to an extent with life-gap potential, I suppose, but do Piranas? Cutey and Bill have been Nightmare's most recent releases. Enough said.
Originally I was going to post only "Rock Paper Scissors", but I decided against cluttering the board with useless messages on an interesting topic.
You can pick paper, and cross your fingers that your opponent picked rock. Etc.
I guess the problem that arises (which I think is the point being made) is that we don't want one of the choices to be less advantageous.
Let's pretend SOB is paper... UR developers have decided to make rock cards that beat paper. Paper used to balance out rock, but because it no longer does, rock becomes stronger and paper declines. More and more people want to use rock simply because it is better than scissors and paper.
That analogy wasn't necessarily the best, but I reckon it says the point well enough. I agree with most people that Nightmare and Piranas are certainly still viable options (particularly Nightmare), but Ghelas has raised a reasonable point. The biggest culprit for the 'SOB decline' (inverted commas because it's arguable) is that most cards nowadays are more ability-heavy.
With SOB it pretty much becomes power vs power, ability vs ability. Not many abilities of Nightmare or Piranas are 'round-winning' abilities (though there are exceptions), so it becomes harder to win rounds. Nightmare make up for to an extent with life-gap potential, I suppose, but do Piranas? Cutey and Bill have been Nightmare's most recent releases. Enough said.
Originally I was going to post only "Rock Paper Scissors", but I decided against cluttering the board with useless messages on an interesting topic.
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