offline 0_The_Oracle Imperator Open Casket
Sunday 27/01/2013, 07:55

Ok not going to start off my thread with a great solid argument, just putting it out there that:

when i am using nightmare/ piranas/ gheist/ roots and i still usually end up with 50-50s against skeelz, then something is seriously wrong with the clan.

what do you think?

offline Fotakou Imperator  
Sunday 27/01/2013, 13:19

Well it seems to me that they lack cards that can help decks create a theme.

I mean what can you make as a deck? Win 3/4 of the rounds? Then you will lack some damage and a good nuke can offset the difference. Nukes? Well they can be double edged swords. Attack/power manipulation? Not enough for a deck.

Their bonus is good,no doubt,but doesnt help them(or even us players) decide on what are they lacking or what we should focus on. They got nice cards(I think their 2*'s are meh though) but after that...what?

Perhaps a half deck could help a bit but I don't even wanna suggest the idea

offline KitsuneKatsumi Imperator XiongDang
Monday 28/01/2013, 00:25

Skeelz used to be around 50/50 against GHEIST and Roots. But since Falkenstein was released, this has gone up to around 65% win ratio for me at least. I mean, you have to build them right so no weak sauce like Liam. If you need a SOA against GHEIST/ Roots, you need to upgrade Liam to Lorna. Also, Skeelz have a extremely specific optimal strategy; I'm not sure if you are using that strategy with them. Several of their top characters are also tricky to use, including Corvus and Belle.

I don't think matchup should give you more than a 20% advantage. Skeelz are better than many clans against GHEIST/ Roots and certainly have an advantage on both of them. They are also effective against other clans' SOA characters which are often their best characters. For instance, Skeelz have a fair matchup against Junkz because Junkz often runs at least 1 SOB and 2 SOA and sometimes even more.

Skeelz vs. GHEIST/ Roots should not be an autowin. You should have an advantage, and Skeelz *does* have the advantage against them. But luck and skill should be greater factors.

When Skeelz is strong, as well as other characters that are good against GHEIST/ Roots, it *does* effectively check them; as long as GHEIST/ Roots do not consistently win more than 60% of their matches, they are not broken.

You should explain which Skeelz characters you think need to be improved. But I think Skeelz is a solid upper Tier 3 clan right now.

offline wats_happenin Colossus Casual Grind
Monday 28/01/2013, 01:48

I agree

All they really need is a solid nuke card....that 8/7 full protection we were discussing is pretty much the end game.
Unfortunately Skeelz is a clan that is actually ridiculously easy to OP...give them something like that and boom you throw them right to the top of ELO, and with such strong support backup there would be little standing in their way

The biggest issue with giving Skeelz an awesome nuke is simply that SOA clans would diminish, and tbh these clans are the sole thing keeping crap like Troompah in check

Let's take a look at Minerva for example
On paper she's not really that bad, but that 5 damage is just a joke really
However....if we give her 6 damage she's automatically better than Michael and almost on par with the Tan Man (I'd argue she'd actually be better as she is protected) but still.

That was also why Michael had to be courage...if he wasn't he'd straight away make Hikiyousan and WIlly look like an absolute joke

I think that the staff are catering for some of the older cards in other clans to mimic the Skeelz....unfortunately it means they keep getting toned down cards the only recent exception being Dr Falkenstein who is actually insanely good

offline 0_The_Oracle Imperator Open Casket
Monday 28/01/2013, 01:58

Skeelz for mono is definitely a great idea. think they definitely need a 4* and even a 5* sorry minerva is kinda bad now that i think about it 5 damage is pathetic.... i used gheist to beat them 3 times..... greem is always banned, and honestly shes a coin toss that does not really fit into the theme.

definitely need a more solid SoA other than liam, then we can talk.

offline ghelas Titan E X C A L I B U R
Monday 28/01/2013, 05:13

I think the problem isn't with the clan. It's with the people playing it.

Good players will run Skeelz mostly when SoA clans are prominent in the meta.
SoA clans have not been terribly prominent in the meta -- at least not on a regular basis. (With a bunch of heavy hitters like Askai and Azel out of ELO, people are still trying to figure out what they should be running.)
Therefore, the Skeelz players you are running into are not-so-good players. smiley

offline KitsuneKatsumi Imperator XiongDang
Monday 28/01/2013, 05:21


Greem actually has amazing synergy with all of Skeelz's key characters. Redra is a crucial DR assuming Greem hits, and Sasha/ Chiara/ Sandro/ Falkenstein can KO or win the last round.

As I wrote a few days before, Minerva is very good for Type 2 but kind of the opposite of what Skeelz really need in ELO. They don't need SOA specifically, as they have some of the best topend 2* and 3* walls available in ELO, but they *do* need another bomb that can crush through DR. Logan would have been ok if he had been 9 gap and had a min. of 2 or 3. Their 4* selection isn't lacking; Corvus and Falkenstein are staples and then you have a choice of 4* bombs in Greem, Jay, Carter and Manfred.

Their 5* have ALWAYS gotten the shaft. Eloxia would have been playable at 8/7 and still fair at 8/8. Tomas should have been 8/7.

offline Taxt1271 Imperator  
Monday 28/01/2013, 14:33

Minerva isn't that bad. I used her to some success. It's basically a non revenge based Chiara with one more damage and DR. She's very easy to win a round with and even if your opponent over pills to beat her they have minus two damage.

If you draw her with Redra then it's possible to get an easy two round win if you draw something like Dr. Falkenstein and Sasha as your other two.

offline 0_The_Oracle Imperator Open Casket
Monday 28/01/2013, 16:20

If you dont draw greem and you face something like pussycats its game over, pretty much. if you play against sakrohm, game over. against montana? game over. other clans like bangers + ulu watu are a pain too.

maybe not exactly game over, but 'game over' as in you have to read every. single. move. precisely. skeelz just lacks in damage as you guys have said its really terrible seriously. corvus has THREE damage. winning a round with him means nothing. while it is true they have topeend 2/3*s, their 4/5*s are complete crap. if dr falkenstein was something like 6/6 or even 5/8 would have been WAYYY better (that damage really needed). you guys have no idea how boring greem is. every game is basically a coin flip, and you will have to be successful with her (either force opp. over pill a lot or win with her). otherwise your opponent can easily kill you since the remaining characters have mediocre 2-4 damage apiece.

all your talk of synergy only works if greem WINS. but 7 power is pathetic, trust me. michael is terrible with courage. eloxia is just bad. minerva 5 damage.

8/7 full protection is not as bad as you think. think about some of the solid 5*s, they are all still better than him matchup wise (ongh 8/8, beeboy 9/7, blaaster cr 4* 8/6, dorian laughs).

sorry corvus and belle are not top characters. belle is kinda bad. corvus is shaky.

lorna is terrible against nightmare/ piranas, another matchup they should be good against. eloxia 8/8 op btw

offline KitsuneKatsumi Imperator XiongDang
Tuesday 29/01/2013, 00:05

Have you tried Belle? She solves some of Skeelz's damage issues. Having the option to fury for only 1 pill is great. She lacks Hawkin's SOB but I think Piranas players can appreciate how awesome it would be if Hawkins could fury for 1 pill.

Lorna is a little underpowered (she should have been 8/4) but she is very good in Skeelz's worst matchups. Although she has no ability against Nightmare/ Piranas, those are generally good matchups for Skeelz anyway. And you can still play her against Glorg or Azgoth and she still goes pill for pill against Pan.

Again repeating what I wrote a few days ago. 8/7 full protection wouldn't be broken as an individual character the way that Spyke, Jackie or Caelus are broken, but it has a good chance of pushing the Skeelz clan as a whole over the top.

As Ghelas said, there are good weeks to run Skeelz and good weeks to not run them. If there is a ton of Montana (like last week), don't run Skeelz.

Reading every move precisely: this is part of the nature of Skeelz's defensive strategy. Skeelz is a defensive clan and has the tools to be the best or 2nd best defensive clan. The Skeelz playstyle is not the easiest and requires an experienced player. They are not the best clan to climb to 1400 ELO (UPPER TIER 3) but they are a good choice for an experienced player who wants to play in a control/ defensive manner and have consistently playable draws.

Players new to ELO should stick to clans that win when they draw their 5* bombs.

Answer to this subject

Clint City, night.