offline Euzebe Colossus Open Casket
Wednesday 01/02/2012, 17:12

Hello all,

We made a series of interviews between the end of 2011 and the beginning of 2012. These interviews persuaded us to complete a project we were thinking about for a long time: the setting up of a cards rotation system.

Right now there are 800 cards in the collection and it’s already too much for the game to run smoothly. The players who have all the cards always use the strongest of a clan and even if it makes them win matches they are frustrated not to see more variety. For their part, the beginners have to face a huge collection and they often feel quite lost.

We want to create a list that includes only characters released in the past two years (+ leaders and starter characters) and change several rooms which allow players to only use the characters in this list. We won’t impose this list in every rooms because our goal is not to stop you from playing the oldest cards, for example the DM T2 and Survivor T2 won’t change at all even if names will be different.

Let’s see what will happen in detail:

1/ Create a list of characters called «Standard» which will be updated every 6 months:
This list will contain Leaders, Starter Decks characters, all characters released within these last 2 years before the update (LD included) and characters which will be released after the update.
In practical terms it will give about ten characters allowed in each clan (with more or less the same number of characters in each level). Note that the new clans will keep all their characters. It will be taken into account in the cards releases planning. We will act as to give each clan what they need to be efficient.

2/ Creation of 3 new deck formats:
Extended Format: all characters allowed, no doubles, 40 stars max., equivalent to T2.
Standard Format: Standard characters only, 40 stars mac., no doubles.
Standard Format 25: Standard characters only, 25 stars max., no doubles, list of characters banned if it’s needed (for Leaders for example).
Note that the T1 format disappears.

3/ Finally, create or adapt battle rooms:
The Standard battle room : Standard Format with a DT every other hour.
Instead of opening a less than 26 stars (T1) room and a more than 26 stars (T2) one, you will have one single room BUT you’ll face opponents whose decks have a number of stars close to yours. This mechanism corresponds better to the reality of DTs today where every players try to find the good combination which will give the most points while winning matches with 20 to 30 stars decks. Merging the two rooms will allow you to keep this optimization spirit without the «artificial» side of the stars limitation. This flexibility combined with the Standard format will give a breath of fresh air to DTs while keeping specificity.

This room will be the ONLY DT room. There won’t be any T2, T1 or ELO Daily Tournament. We know that it’s not harmless and it was a very difficult decision to take. Some of you struggled a long time to obtain very expensive collectors which allow them to improve their results in DT and their disappointment is understandable. Nevertheless, DT’s today are clearly dominated by some decks not to say several highly efficient cards which is not healthy in a competitive game mode.

The ELO room: Standard format 25 (with potentially some bans), same rules except that there won’t be DTs in this room any more.
Use the Standard rules in the ELO mode sounds quite obvious to us. It will allow some regular changes to the mode and it will remove old characters which cause balancing problems. It should reduce the number of staff banned characters and no more characters banned by players.

About DT, we think that the ELO mode is pretty different from the DT. There is no reason to mix these two game modes. Today, ELO players have the opportunity to win free credits without playing in DT. Tomorrow they’ll have to choose between Dt and ELO which is already the case for players playing in other modes (Survivor or DM).

3 Deathmatch rooms:
Extended DM: Extended format, current DM rules.
Standard DM: Standard format, current DM rules.
Standard DM 25: Standard format 25, current DM rules.
The Extended DM will be equivalent to the current DM T2, only the name will change.
The Standard DM will allow players with big decks but with characters in the Standard list. The DM T1 will disappear and we’ll add a Standard 25 room. We noticed that the rare players in DM T1 were more ELO players than DT T1 players. We hope that the Standard DM 25 will be more used than the current DM T1 room. If it’s not the case, we will think about it. If there are DM T1 players here who are reading this message and don’t want this change to Standard DM 25, don’t hesitate to let us know.

3 Survivor rooms.
Extended Survivor: Extended format.
Standard Survivor: Standard format.
Standard Survivor 25: Standard format 25.
Same idea as Deathmatch.

And the rooms which won’t change:
Fight Club: the deck you want.
Warehouse: Training.
Warehouse no pillz: Training NoPill

offline Carnage_Time Imperator D-Versified
Wednesday 01/02/2012, 21:27

It seems to me like a cash grab in the end.

By getting rid of the old cards and only allowing newer cards to be playable they are forcing us to buy credits to get the new cards to stand a chance. Because if you don't keep buying the new cards you will fall off the wagon and it will go back to the way it was before. The people who can afford to keep getting the new cards sooner will have better advantages.

Imagine if Desmond came out with the standard? He would be really the only Montana 4* that is playable. His price would have been at least 50k. Arnie for junta would be the #1 4*. Spyke's price would have been 100k since they say there will be no bans.

offline DarthTx Hero The Trend
Wednesday 01/02/2012, 21:35

Not sure how I feel about this change. I'm always curious to see how new modes transpire, and I can understand the sentiment to cut out some of the oldest cards to prevent the stagnant domination of the old guard with Jackie Cr and the like. But I also agree wholeheartedly at this decimating variation within clans, particularly in mono. On closer examination, I also can see how this would cause some major issues with clan balance. consider this comparison:

Berzerk: Newest clan, all 23 of their cards make the cut, with quite a bit of variation, and the card that would be most fairly called OP in the current ELO environment (Spyke).

Piranas: The 5th newest clan, still pretty new but not nearly as fresh as Berzerk. Of them, only 9 cards make the cut in Standard: Ahkab, Pesth, Raeth, Coleridge, Taljion, Baba, Ector, Puff, and Bonnie LD. Try making a deck from that in Standard ELO, where the Piranas previously excelled. 3 are support, making them only usable in mono, of which there is maybe one usable deck with the current pool. Try and half deck them, you're down to a pool of 6 for 4 cards. So 1 or 2 options for mono, 2 or 3 options for half, both with little variation between the choices. I may have missed something or miscalculated, though

I'm not sure how new cards will be released, but using release date as the standard seems arbitrary and isn't likely to balance the clans. Just my worries on the matter.

offline LOA Daigon Legend Legends of America
Wednesday 01/02/2012, 21:55

Greetings. ;-]

Check out the rooms right now, as you read this. Compare how many players are in ELO, T1, and T2 rooms, in various formats. Check again in an hour, when a DT is in session. Now remember that any 'cycling', 'rotation' or whatever you call it will only apply to the "Standard" formats. Not to downplay the _effect_ on ELO, but the biggest difference in someone's ability to play, is therefore the removal of Extended cards from DTs.

From what I was able to read on the other forums (due to the timezones, UR staff had a chance to reply between yesterday and today), they have not closed the door on offering "Core" cards, like DrTrav suggests. Alternatively, revising the time from 2 years to 2 1/2 or 3 years... I don't know if they're willing to revisit that, but it certainly would seem to be an effective and simple solution to allowing more than 10 characters per clan. Here's hoping. ;-]

While I still love the idea of Extended 25, I'd have to wonder if it would be capable of implementation in a DT. Even with a 'penalty' like what accompanies banned cards in T1 and T2 now, I don't know if it would be balanced. Something for the beta-testers to game-play. (Anyone know where I can sign up, by the way?)

Long story short, sure, UR is a business. Sure, there's a new clientele. Of course money's a consideration. If they didn't consider it, we'd all have no game left to play. But let's be real. We have about 800 cards in over 20 clans, with a minimum of 4 cards released every two weeks. Packs are still only capable of giving you 3 cards at a time. Even now that you can choose your clans, your ability to boost your deck up by packs is going to be very limited.

The longer we go, the more screwed up it becomes. We've already seen this happen, as older cards in demand are harder and harder to pull from packs, and the only way to get them is through price-gouging on the market. This step is NECESSARY, and although it certainly isn't perfect, it alleviates much of the biggest liability in the development of this game: Hyper-inflation due to the overgrowth of new characters, relative to the ability of the average player to get the characters they want. And, I might remind you, that several of the people posting on this thread have been complaining about exactly this for years. ;>


offline TheFatHobo Imperator The Local Bums
Wednesday 01/02/2012, 21:56

On a side note, with these new changes I could only imagine what the price of the newer "godly" cards like Cortez would worth. It already cost a small fortune to most players (me included) to get one now. If these changes are in place, people who can afford to manipulate the market would have even more power and "powerful newer" cards would probably cost a lot more than it already does, and the same goes for "new staples" cards. And at the end, i think it will probably hurt the newer player more, well unless they "charge it" and buy a bunch of credits.

offline DrTravelerLoA Senior Legends of America
Wednesday 01/02/2012, 21:59

Now I'm looking through the lists, between Starter deck contents and cards released in the last 2 years, quite a few clans will be ok in the Standard 25 format. If they go ahead and supplement it with a core of about 4 cards be clan (who don't currently have a starter deck) it ought to work out ok.

Does anyone have a starter deck list out there? I only had the Action (Sentinel/La Junta) list to look at.

offline DrTravelerLoA Senior Legends of America
Wednesday 01/02/2012, 22:02

If the there are packs that only pull from "Standard" format available cards, I'd imagine Cortex and Dregn would go down in price. After all, they'd be much much easier to pull from the smaller card pool.

offline DarthTx Hero The Trend
Wednesday 01/02/2012, 22:23

@DrTraveler LoA having a few "core" cards that remain would help just about all the clans remain viable, but would run counter to the constant impermanence the UR staff seems to be going for with Standard. And assuming it's using the up to date starter packs, Action is no longer a thing.

The standard mode's effects on the market would seem quite promising, but as said before there is a chance it would backfire and have a CR effect on older cards if not handled correctly. I trust the UR staff to know what its doing, but I hope the changes announced will evolve into something slightly more finessed a policy.

offline DrTravelerLoA Senior Legends of America
Wednesday 01/02/2012, 22:29

@DarthTx If you leave in the core cards, they don't have to stay set in stone. You can change them up every 6 months as needed. Or just make the core part of the starter packs and expand them.

No one says the core cards even have to be the top tier cards. Just stuff to round out a mono deck in Standard 25. I can deal with using Rebecca and Carlos in a mono-Sentinel deck is that's what it takes to round out the 25 stars.

offline RG LoA Colossus Legends of America
Wednesday 01/02/2012, 22:52

Here's a thought to expand on the core card idea: use brand new cards as the core rather than existing cards. These could be similar to Ld cards where you have to do a mission to get them and can never sell them, but these missions would be easier and always available. Then the market could never be manipulated on these characters.

offline Ecna Senior  
Wednesday 01/02/2012, 23:03

Terrible, terrible idea.

Making 3/4 of the cards essentially useless is not a way to improve the game. Especially in elo, which I think is the main platform for most dedicated players.

If the problem is high prices created by rich players - fight the high prices. For example take the most priced cards, and reintroduce them in New Blood. In addition to 4 new cards take 4 old ones (i.e. Kolos, Dregn, GraksmxxT, Tsubame) and put them in NB for one week, for everyone to grab easily. Next week you take them out and introduce 4 other. You both let newcomers grab highly valued (by that I mean most usable/powerful) cards, AND encourage people to buy packs. At the same time you eliminate the hoarders - there's no reason to buy up the cards from market, if there's no way to control their supply and price.
Maybe I don't get something, but how can an issue of supply and demand be a problem for administration, when they have absolute power over supply through packs?

If the problem is in DT - make it work. Increase point penalty for ELO banned cards (to 3, or even 4 points). Ban CR cards from use in DT room (btw, eliminating T1/T2 division and making one DT room is the only idea I think is really good in this). (Jackie CR users now make a collective sigh, but let's face it, her existence alone is one of the main issues in DT). Give 2/3 more points to the winner of battle, so DT play relays a little more on winning battles then rounds.

Please, use scalpel not hammer.

Answer to this subject

Clint City, day.