40enSun, 21 Apr 2013 14:59:18 GMTSun, 21 Apr 2013 14:59:18 GMTFizzle. This card is amazing, it's Junkz's Maurice/Marina! I know Gibson has similar stats and arguably a more versatile ability, but Fizzle is such a good opener because you can just old her, and deal damage. She's in that crowded Junkz 4* department, but to see that she isn't even considered for a deck... I'll be using her for sure.]]>Thu, 11 Apr 2013 21:02:09 GMTShaakarti is 7/7 with great pill recovery without her ability, so she can easily hit in an off-Courage turn. Putting her and X-0 in the same deck is just fine. Shaakarti doesn't see play because Vortex has better 5*s, but she's not, strictly speaking, a bad choice. Very useful vs both SoB and SoA decks, either of which can give Vortex trouble.]]>Thu, 11 Apr 2013 16:40:50 GMTX-0DUS. X-0DUS is 1 star less with a better ability (SOA), for 1 less damage. Shakaarti's most valuable quality is that she keeps the Vortex bonus against bonus: SOB clans. However, X-0DUS's SOA is even more valuable against Piranas or Nightmare. SOA also means X-0DUS' s 6 damage is much better protected than Shakaarti's 7.

7/7 is a great base line for Shakaarti but her ability SOB should have been unconditional.

Lulabee: Obsolete these days. You are correct, she compares with Hefty. But Hefty is only used in standard. Hefty's damage is too weak compared to Dorian, Glenn, Herman or Lady to see play in ELO. Same with Lulabee, SOB is just not good enough of an ability to justify a sub-par 7/6 base line, especially in a clan that has some of the best 5* characters available.]]>Thu, 11 Apr 2013 02:18:07 GMTVictoria: yah i thought she was underrated too until i started using her. she is honestly not that great, mainly because of 4 damage. a good SoA needs to have good damage output to backup, hence Nahomi.

Bloodh: i still think he is really underrated. not true, if you have him a lot of times you can pretty much just win 2 rounds, mainly because SoB stops like a lot of damage clans already. Save him till last turn, always.

Brianna: yah she cant be viewed as +8 attack, because that is ONLY if you win. but yah greatest asset is solidness.

Lulabee: honestly not much can stop her. for the record, she is usually better than Hefty (+2 power is usually more useful on 5*?). i dont really see 6 damage as a big problem (Rolph had 6 damage too), and not many cards can reduce a full 6 damage. maybe Daddy Jones is too good to ignore sometimes tho.]]>Wed, 10 Apr 2013 09:27:41 GMTVictoria is underrated, usually people would run Tolliver or even Wardog over her, but Victoria gives so much control over SoA cards, you shut down any card with SoA.]]>Wed, 10 Apr 2013 07:27:57 GMT
It is very rare that Bloodh is actually more DR resistant than Miss Lizbeth. Any playable DR in ELO will have an equal effect against either.

There MAY be the odd case against something like Zornado or Peeler, but that is extremely rare (and only causes a 1-gap difference). Just saying.


@ghelas

*nods in agreeement*


Oh yeah, and:
Shakaarti = not really sure. Possibly 'underrated', but I have don't have the experience with her to give any real support to that.
Veronica = ehh, she really isn't that good. I think her 'underratedness' is justified.
Leela = pretty good. I doubt she's underrated though; most P-cat players would strongly consider her (and play her according to the other half-deck)
Quasichoco gets played, and not any less than is deserved.

That is all for now.
]]>Tue, 09 Apr 2013 23:17:19 GMT
Brianna can't be viewed as 8+8 attack for a very simple reason: She is NOT 8+8 attack.
Gatline beats Brianna or any other unmodified 8 power without SoA up to 8 pills.
What you're trying to say is "Brianna get a pill back so you can pill her harder." While that is true, in the event that she loses her round, that puts you at an even bigger disadvantage... And if you overpill with her against 1 pill, you've probably made your game 50/50.

I am not saying Brianna is worse than Gatline. IMO Brianna IS a little bit better, but her biggest asset is the 8/7 stats she brings vs SoA clans, vs Gatline's 7/7.]]>Tue, 09 Apr 2013 22:34:30 GMTGatline : Sorry, Brianna is better, Brianna can viewed as 8/5 +8 attack, only that you get the extra pill afterwards. So in the first 3 rounds Brianna is better in the last round Gatline is better. But yes Gatline is no doubt good but faces competition (Bryan Brianna Arnie Isatis (mono). Come to think of it her base stats and ability are same as of Tuck Petra or Raeth.

Veronica : Is underrated or at-least used to be. A Muze bluff + Veronica used to be devastating but since Muze's banning and Malicia's unveiling Veronica has very little synergy with the other clan members

Bloodh : yes he's a good card, better than Miss Lizbeth and less susceptible to DR. But since Piranas don't have a DR or a Heal card or any defeat + life card for that matter, they have to win 3 rounds, thus Selma helps that cause better. If Piranas had good defeat cards and DRs, we would see Bloodh being used.

Shakaarti is Underrated IMO
Leela is Underrated
Quasichoco is Underrated]]>Tue, 09 Apr 2013 12:56:49 GMTValentina Ld: it's not that she is underrated, her clan is underrated and rarely used.
Futoshi Ld: nope, people know he's good
Norman: competition, rightly ignored
Juicy Lord: competition; he is okay though.
Vermyn N: pretty good, pricey though. His clan has problem with weekly bans, we will see this week.
Haze: good card but Fizz is also good, if not better. Not a lot of people run mono Junkz, and Junkz 4-stars too good in half decks.
Marlysa Cr: NO ONE UNDERRATES HER (just can't afford her)
Gatline: (She is probably worse than both Bryan and Brianna in more cases) in this case yeah kinda underrated she is good
Krung: Without your five star nuke he is kinda useless. Considering his damage, we probably need to win three rounds, but with dat bonus? Too much effort not worth it.]]>Tue, 09 Apr 2013 09:59:00 GMTValentina Ld, Futoshi Ld, Norman, Juicy Lord, Vermyn N (overlooked due to competition), Haze, Marlysa Cr, Gatline (shes better than both Bryan and Brianna in many cases. Krung.]]>Mon, 08 Apr 2013 21:43:08 GMTBrianna is better than Gatline though. +1 pill and more solid against SoA. If she wins, the +1 pill was a +8 attack anyway. Doesn't help if you lose though. Personal opinion.]]>Sun, 07 Apr 2013 18:23:05 GMTCyb Lhia and will consistenly use other 2 star Vortex cards over her

Gatline is very playable and i have run her in the past in decks where she fits in nicely]]>Sun, 07 Apr 2013 15:19:25 GMTGatline is a-okay, although her competition is tough. 7+8 > 8 power, up to 8 pills. The issue is that her competition is great, but IMO Gatline is still very much ELO playable.

I'm sure I already said this somewhere in this thread, but Cyb becomes an absolute goddess if you have good lifegain in your deck. Only thing keeping her in check is that Vortex have a severe SoA vulnerability that very few members of their clan don't suffer from.

My newest favorite (sort of) underrated card is "She's Not So Good in ELO" Raven. I think in time, people will see just how strong that damage is. Even Uranus just reduces her damage to that of a decent 4*!! One of the things that kept Junta down as a clan was that they had virtually no DR penetration, aside from some 7-powered SoA. A little DR could nullify the threat of 2HKO in ELO, and that meant games against Junta would be a lot more predictable. With Raven's brute force, that is no longer a problem.]]>Sun, 07 Apr 2013 11:46:47 GMTCyb Lhia."

But there is still a certain use Cyb Lhia has in a Vortex/Fang Pi Clang deck. In your worst possible hand, you could have Kusuri, Zhu Tang, Shifou and Cyb Lhia. Now imagine the same hand, but with C Wing in place of Cyb Lhia - a hell of a lot weaker and less threatening. Of course, in strong hands C Wing opens up a lot of KO opportunities, but really ELO isn't focused on 2hko and IMO works less efficiently with strong hands (high power > low power against SOA, regardless of damage).

Other then that, you've hit the nail on the head on the rest of those cards. ]]>Sun, 07 Apr 2013 02:06:35 GMTKawamashi Cr: umm no Roger is better.... 1 more damage and copy:bonus is good

@Gatline: no pretty bad haha i mean +8 attack is so minimal, how often do you see raw 7 power cards? look at counterparts: Kazayan (+2 attack), Dagg(+4 attack, different bonus), even Coby in mono (+1 power, more vulnerable tho). she gets beaten by all her competition: Brianna, Arnie, Isatis, Bryan.

@Miken Moose: yah, Treeman + Flora definitely comes ahead, but if it comes down to third choice i think Miken Moose will have a great run for it.

RAW 7/6 is bad, RAW 7/7 is bad (Jalil). but yah if its just 7/6 wih attack manip its decent.

yah Tobbie gets overlooked sometimes, but hes decent and 4 damage is there to threaten. kills so many cards, including pesky Freaks.

Eugene: i think hes beter than Nanook in all honesty, against SoA hes not half bad either 9 power. 9 power is hardly different from 10 power anyway, but when unopposed his ability can make a difference.

Ward hg: C Wing comes first for sure, but for Cyb Lhia it REALLY depends on the rest of your deck. I mean, if you have a fan pi clang half theres no reason to use Cyb Lhia.]]>Sat, 06 Apr 2013 17:23:35 GMTPan. Same goes for Valentina Ld. While her conditional ability will make playing Sentinel more difficult, her 6 damage is one of the highest you'd take in a Sentinel half (Jakson, Melvin, Valentina Ld, ???) and that can really save you from being out-damaged in the earlier rounds. I'll say she and Jakson will make a good damage-catch-up combo. I'm saying this from experience, ever since I started playing Valentina Ld I'd sworn to always include her when I'm playing Sentinel.

I'd also include Tobbie. While being extremely vulnerable to SoA, All Stars, Protection: Power and much more, Tobbie can tackle cards like Ongh or Murray, which is a feat considering he is only 2*. Don't put all your money on Tobbie winning the game, but his ability to put some killer-cards (again referring to Ongh) at bay is worth noticing.

Eugene. While 7/4 is plain average for 3*, he's not really that bad compared to Nanook. 1 less power but a 2 life safety-net. I'd still choose Nanook first because of SoA, but he's my second choice, unless I'm sick and tired of facing GHEIST/Roots 9 times out of 10, then I'd choose Janice second.

There's also a pretty heated debate about Ward hg, I'll say he's OK but I'd still choose C Wing and Cyb Lhia first, hence no need for a third 2*. With lots of sly tricks around Elo lately, I wouldn't want to bet on him.]]>Sat, 06 Apr 2013 17:08:25 GMTMiken Moose over Jeto. But now with Flora we don't need him anymore, especially since Roots are already lacking in raw damage. Would have played him in the past, but we had Arno then. Maybe the past-past. He was one of my starting cards too... Ah the memories.

For 4* Frozn, aside from Stompah the #1 choice, between Eliska, Tsuka and Bankee, I choose Eliska. I always thought Bankee was the better one of the three, so I played him when i had a Frozn fever, but then via trial-and-error I realised Eliska is better. She doesn't have to be played in her courage rounds if you can activate her bonus, making her a 8/7, but if you can, then go ahead and abuse her 11/7 stats. 9/5 is pretty good too. I'll say she is conditionally versatile, just adapt to whatever situation the games forces you into.

I've been reading all the comments in this subject, and I get the impression we're referring to "competitive Elo cards that are not played as often as their same-level counterparts", so if I'm wrong please correct me. I'm also running of characters, so I'll do a short one.

Kawamashi Cr: For some reason I like him but everyone else doesn't. Not as good as Rodney but he's second to Lola only, in my opinion.

Gatline: When Wyre was introduced I thought we'd see more of her and less of Bryan, but I was wrong. She's the only non-conditional attack manipulation in Elo for La Junta.

I'm not finished yet but I'm running out of characters, argh. Next post.]]>Sat, 06 Apr 2013 06:50:33 GMT i think Miken Moose is largely underrated. a 2* that forces you to pill, and has 2 damage (fairly decent, at least not 1 damage). reminds of of Wendel, however not conditional and 2 less attack.

Tsuka: second best 4* in clan? unopposed and on revenge turn becomes a 9/9..... SoA? 9/6. SoA? 7/7 not bad at all.]]>Mon, 11 Feb 2013 07:21:45 GMTGreesh: if players wanted a SOB poisoner they would use Nightmare? Sheitane (who is probably more likely an underrated character) is a min. 1. There's Ector? Greesh doesn't play well with Ector. Andsom is a bigger threat and isn't played. Piranas don't have a problem with damage: only if you play too many < 4 damage guys (Hawkins, Puff, Amiral, Trey) do you have a problem with damage. If you play him on turn 1 and win, you are at a pill disadvantage. Very difficult for Piranas to win from there. Piranas are about being a threat every turn. That has no synergy with Greesh. Their biggest need is more dependable anchors on turn 4. They are not lacking threats on turn 1.

Glenn: Competition as you said, especially also since there is 4* Glenn (Kayazan), 3* Glenn (Oxen) and 2* Glenn (Gail Ld), But she isn't overlooked or underrated. She is a near topend 5* and one of the most difficult characters to play against on turn 1.

Kuei: SOB is only a mediocre ability on a 5*, it is more suited for 2* characters, and on top of it Kuei's SOB is conditional so that means that his ability will fail on occasion. Not to mention that FPC is not lacking in topend unconditional SOB characters at 3* (Shifou), 2* (Marlysa Cr) and quasi 4* (Futoshi Ld). Kerozinn and Yoshida's non-conditional fighting abilities are much, much better, so Kuei never really enters the discussion. Heitachi is a more useful character not even considering he is a * less.]]>Mon, 11 Feb 2013 06:18:48 GMT
Greesh: i know, 6 power. but seriously TEN DAMAGE if used on first turn? i mean, Piranas ALWAYS had a problem with low damage, why isnt this guy used??

Glenn: often often overlooked. competition in clan is true, that includes Dorian (banned constantly), Hefty, Herman, Lady. but with so many SoAs around, he is the second (or third) most solid card when faced with those. everyone's like oh crap Avola so scary, well this guy has a minimum i know, but he can be used in HALF DECKS, as well as better when matched up against SoAs. greatest first turn bluff ever.

Kuei: i think this guys as close as getting banned possible? possibly, i mean if it had straight out SoB everyone would start using him no doubt. revenge is conditional, but it is the easiest to activate out of all those abilities. i honestly think this guys tied with Kerozinn Cr, but all i hear when ppl say Fang Pi Clang 5*s are the latter, Tsubame and Yoshida. this guy gets no mention?]]>