40enWed, 13 Feb 2013 21:16:17 GMTWed, 13 Feb 2013 21:16:17 GMTManfred is okay in my book. Since Sasha, Falkenstein, etc. are hard to justify pilling against, his confidence can be activated very easily. And with his 8 power, he can become part of a win-3-rounds strategy more easily than any of the other Skeelz nukes.

Better yet, it's a pain for your opponent when you draw Manfred and Jay together, especially with an easy opener like Sasha.]]>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 17:33:29 GMTBelle just takes a lot of skill to use. Sorry, but you seem to disfavor skill intensive, high reward characters. Drawing Belle gives you the option of spending 1 pill for +2 damage. So to play her correctly, you must accurately assess whether that 2 damage is going to make a difference. If it is, then it is a bargain. When you win with her, she is essentially +14 attack. If you lose with her, that means your opponent pilled. A 2* that can alternatively draw pills, win rounds or hit for 4 is excellent for a 2*. But you like Liam so what is there to say? There is 0 skill to using Liam, and Liam is also kind of useless in many situations. Yes, he's good if they have a good damage ability... but is he going to help you beat Troompah like a more powerful SOA should? No. So you favor a lousy 2* character that takes no skill to play over a skill intensive 2* character that has a lot of synergy with the rest of the clan and also helps mitigate one of the clan's weaknesses. Sorry, but it sounds to me that instead of experimenting and learning to use the characters that Skeelz have been given, you'd rather complain and demand that the designers give you more OP versions of the low skill characters that you are used to. Clearly a clan named "Skeelz" is wrong for you.

Belle can be a 2* bluff. Or she can be a 7/2 +2 pills that punishes DR. Or she can be 7/2 +14 atk wall. Or she can be a 7/4 bomb with the ability +1 pills. Or she can be 7/4 +14 atk bomb wall for -1 pills.]]>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 16:24:23 GMT
Cards like Ditha are glass cannons and very hard to hit with. Especially furied ones. They're also very easy to see coming since they're so one dimensional.]]>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 15:24:22 GMTMichael and Minerva in ELO, and believe it or not, Michael comes out ahead for me. I guess it's nice to have a flexible reducer like Minerva, but really, you'd rather have that ability on a 2* or 3* card. 5*'s need to hit hard, and Michael does do that. 10 power is beatable... by some clans. SOA and SOB clans fall behind very quickly.

I love pill manipulation cards, but try as I might, I can't find a spot for Belle in my mono-Skeelz setups. Her damage and degree of difficulty to use are just not what I want.]]>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 14:09:23 GMTManfred?? Jay is more understandable but Manfred not only is he confidence based, but hes highly vulnerable to DRs.]]>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 12:50:13 GMTManfred, Jay, and Snowflake in my deck. Having three big nukes and a lot of pesky round-winners in my deck somewhat offsets the fact that 2 of my nukes are 7 power. Drawing 2 nukes definitely makes your game a lot less predictable as well, and with my deck composition, I will either draw 2 nukes or 3 stupid-strong round winners almost every game. I think that this is the best Skeelz deck I've played that does not rely on Greem.

I have tried Michael and Belle before, and while I like both cards, stuffing it too full of round-winners makes it more reliant on winning 3 rounds and more vulnerable to DR. Pretty happy with my current setup, and getting pretty close to a 3/4 win rate, which is good enough for t100 if consistent. Unfortunately I still haven't had a great deal of playtime, but I expect that to improve later on in the week.
]]>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 12:36:43 GMT
Michael: 7 damage is good, but courage is predictable. and if used on a turn going second... 7 power.. id rather use Snowflake in that situation. not to mention hes like the only card with fair damage. also, 10 power is still beatable.

Belle: sorry i dont get it. so you are going that weird strategy of.... furying on a 2*? sorry I dont care if it gives you more damage, you are just wasting a bunch of pillz, and makes your play even more risky.... what if you LOSE? also, kinda useless on last turn.... 7 power isnt getting anywhere too far.

Dr Falkenstein: yah hes standard, but sorry when the rest of the clan is not standard, a standard card doesnt cut it. 5 damage in a 'standard' Skeelz deck is basically the second highest damaging card.]]>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 11:03:08 GMTManfred and Jay aren't good cards. Manfred is jayuta with 1 more power a terrible condition and a worse bonus. Jay only has 7 power which is easily bested.

In all the Skeelz deck I've seen there isn't a huge deal of difference. They are all essentially the same deck. In other clans if I don't like a card I don't have to play it. I don't like Trish for my junta deck so I can use someone else. Skeelz you really can't do that.

So aside from damage issues they also have really bad depth issues.]]>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 07:39:36 GMTMichael+Belle? How are you doing with Manfred and Jay?

@Nomi: They used to have this problem but it's improved a lot now that they have Michael, Belle and Dr Falkenstein. Falkenstein's 5 furies for 7 is pretty standard for a 4*.]]>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 06:10:18 GMTSkeelz lack damage. That's it. I used Skeelz every once in a while and do noticed that. Most times your opponent can just fury all pill something and let you win all other rounds and still get a win. Sometimes, playing Skeelz pretty much grants your opponent a free win. That's how damage-lacking they are.]]>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 04:26:37 GMTSkeelz are definitely lacking a special something that many top clans have right now, but I wouldn't put them at the bottom of a tier list, either.]]>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 03:20:35 GMTSkeelz is definitely viable. but a fury with Ditha will make you go mad.

@kitsune sorry you are just going in circles with I-dont-even-know what you are saying. point is, you HAVE NOT BEEN above 1300 very much. ALL CLANS CAN make to 1300.

@ghelas I am actually a very very experienced Skeelz player. The most skilled probably (not trying to brag) on this forum post maybe? I have done the mission of winning 500 fights like 6 months ago. I have even gotten to 1400 once actually, but what did I use? NOT Greem. my deck just for reference: Michael, Dr Falkenstein, Chiara Cr, Snowflake, Sandro, andy ld, Redra, Sasha.

Should really have used Liam, but didnt realize the potential of SoA. This deck only only worked on the condition that IT IS AN SOA WEEK. I had a really smooth run to 1400, but then sometimes drawing hands like Chiara Cr andy ld Redra Sasha against attack bonus clans like Montana is a headache. damage is a REAL ISSUE. however, anything above 6 damage for Skeelz is:

1. predictable: Michael, Manfred
2. 7 power (ie minimal fighting capabilities): Snowflake, Greem, Aylen, Jay.

honestly the closest one was Tomas, but 6 damage... meh. btw im not using Logan. never.

there was one exception-- Caelus Cr of course, but hes banned.]]>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 00:30:00 GMTSkeelz is being seriously underrated here. If you're trying to KO or win less then three rounds you're not playing them well.they have two of the best attack manipulator a in the game in Sasha and Dr. Falkenstien and some of the best manipulators in Minerva, Chiara Cr, Belgosi, Michael, and Sandro. They even have two of the best poisons and heals in Snowflake and Greem. The only thing they lack is damage and SoA. The former isn't a problem as only Pussycats is dangerous with damage reduction and its rather easy to win three rounds with Skeelz. If you win three rounds or even take out their two best cards you're likely to win. SoA isn't too much of a problem because Skeelz aren't affected by versing it so you and your opponent are on even ground that way.

Skeelz also makes copy opponents bonus cards near useless.]]>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 15:29:10 GMTSkeelz are bad or not, both sides of the argument have been very well presented and supported at this point. Instead, let's all play some Skeelz in the next couple of weeks and let's see how we fare, and share the experiences here. That would be way more productive. I'm still running the Jay/Manfred deck myself, only had time for 2 more games but I feel like I'm getting more comfortable with it.

However, I did have a good think, and it might be possible to build those 3* Moses-like "threats" for Skeelz with a little careful thinking. Going to drop some of those ideas in the card creation threat in the General forums, feel free to take a look at them there.]]>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 12:02:15 GMTGreem dominated for me last week. Spyke never dominated like this. Caelus Cr never dominated like this. Askai never dominated like this. Kolos never dominated like this. So I am quite confident in claiming that Greem supported by the right complement of Skeelz is the most OP character in the current ELO environment. When they have access to her, Skeelz are a top tier clan.

Skeelz don't "fall apart" without Greem. They simply lose the freebie wins they get with her. Without Greem, Skeelz is a hard but rewarding clan to use with some good matchups against popular clans. They've gone from a middle clan to an above curve clan. Without Greem they are upper tier 3 along with Montana, Bangers and Roots.]]>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 10:50:15 GMTGreem"

The point is often they don't. Take out 1 card and they fall apart like a cake without egg.

Pick a clan. In no other clan does the removal of 1 card destroy their entire game plan. (Frozen f]]>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 09:56:59 GMTJunkz as the #1 clan in ELO. Probably for over 2 years. Overall is Junkz a better clan than Skeelz? Sure. You know what clan has a good matchup against Junkz? Well Skeelz has a good matchup against Skeelz. How about Roots or GHEIST? Skeelz has a better matchup than Junkz against them. Now that they have two topend low pills walls, their only bad matchups against the other top 10 ELO clans are Montana and Vortex.

Skeelz is good against many of the most valuable abilities in ELO: SOA, SOB, copy bonus. When they have Greem, they also have a good answer for DR and they are near the top of ELO when they have Greem. Even if you spent 8-10 pills to hit with Greem you are in a good position because of how strong Skeelz are defensively. And if your opponents begin to commit 7+ pills to stop Greem, then just adjust and bluff. Either way she's amazing.

Only a TINY handful of 5* characters have SOA or protection: damage. You can still win if Michael gets hit with a DR. Is Michael as good as Wardom or Beeboy? No. But he is a playable 5* choice for Skeelz at their thinnest rank.

Skeelz is not an easy clan to use (unless they have Greem) and you need to be really experienced with their characters to do well with them. I've played Skeelz a lot during the past 2 months and every week I get better and better at using them. If you don't have the experience to use them you aren't seeing them at their full potential.]]>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 08:30:22 GMTGreem. as said Greem is like Skeelz 's ONLY AND ONLY bomb. sorry Michael is not a bomb, a simple DR can stop him right in his ways.

reason i hate Skeelz is that it is always so hard to win with their bombs, (Snowflake, Greem Aylen Jay) ok Jay is not used. but ALL of those have 7 power, pretty much causing you to HAVE to pill A LOT to win. but other than Greem lets say Aylen and Sasha HITS thats only 12 damage, and so many clans can overcome that, even with Redra in your hand. thats why, i generally avoid their nukes.

then comes back to all the wall cards, and building a deck that tries to win 3 rounds. Skeelz is actually VERY similar to Junkz in that way! except, whats different? other than the bonus, it is the fact that Junkz have a DECEnt supply of SoA (3 usable ones). also Sobs, if it is a Freaks busy week. nuke wise, Junkz only really have a few of those, namely Peeler, Fuzz and Haze (tho the 2 have 7 damage they dont have courage making them less predictable) but SoAs and some DRs makes winning 3 rounds a completely viable strategy.]]>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 07:38:25 GMTGreem last week, the reponse was usually 4-6 pills. The characters that Greem couldn't handle were Mona, Nellie, Grudj and Glorg. If I saw people consistently responding to Greem by pilling 7+ pills, I would start to bluff with her more often: thank you for turning Greem into a broken Defeat: -7 opp. pills!. But that didn't happen last week. I never drew such a heavy response. I ended up beating Havoks, Cobys, Avolas, Oxens, Tremorhs, Moses, all sorts of simple -2 power like All Stars, with 4-6 pills. Sometimes I overpilled by 1, sometimes I overpilled by 2, sometimes I didn't overpill and barely won. Sometimes my opponent let me through. But those round wins with Greem all translated into easy match wins for the rest of my team. It amazed me how difficult or impossible it was for opponents to overcome the lead caused by Greem's damage.

Usually winning with Skeelz is very complicated. Sometimes you have to fury or fury twice. But when they have access to Greem, winning with Skeelz is much easier. You no longer have to calculate fury or worry about hitting with the right guy. Greem is arguably the best character unbanned in the current ELO environment. Skeelz is insane when she's not banned, only loses to Montana and Vortex. When you draw her you have an insanely high win%, When you don't draw her, nothing changes because she synergizes simply with all of the core Skeelz characters anyway.]]>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 06:37:53 GMTSkeelz characters are pretty simple. Since they only have 1 ability, they are always going to fall under very clear groups:

Low pill wall if they have attack manipulation (Falkenstein, Sasha, Danae, Lorna)
High pill wall if they have power manpulation (Sandro, Chiara, Belgosi, Minerva)
Bomb if they have a damage ability (Greem, Aylen, Jay, Carter, Logan, Snowflake, Zeke, Todd)
Wall/ Bomb if they have pill manipulation or high base power/ damage (Michael, Corvus, Belle, Manfred, Andy Ld, Saho, Caelus Cr)
Negater if they have DR, defeat or SOA (Redra, Deebler, Minerva, Dwan, Liam)

So they can't have a 3* hybrid wall/ bomb like Moses... the closest is Belle. Their low* characters can only be either walls or bombs but not both. That's why while Michael has obvious weaknesses, he is also really good for Skeelz because he fills that bomb/ wall need.

Current Skeelz presets are also pretty simple. You have:
1 negater: Redra (since you don't want to ever draw more than 1 negater, in case you need to win 3)
2 low pill walls: Sasha and Falkenstein
2 high pill walls: Sandro and Chiara

This leaves 11* for 1-2 bombs and 1-2 wall/bombs. You can go 5/4/2, 5/3/3 or 4/4/3.

But the staple Skeelz characters are clearly above curve or topend. Sandro and Chiara compare to Nanook. Sasha is equivalent to 2 +8 abilities. Falkenstein compares to Rowdy, except he has 7 power that you always wanted on Rowdy.]]>