I really cant seem to get it Lamar Cr is the only staple 5* allstars got besides oyoh so if you want to use a 5* you totally lack freedom in your choice. Also his stats are far from too strong compare him to lou or fuzz or cliff ... He was propably overpowered 2 years ago when he got banned but by now hes not much more then an average 5* (he is strong, yes, but permaban worthy? I dont think so ... )
Id really appreciate if the staff could reconsider some of their old permabans in elo. As the metagame changes through new card releases the bans should change aswell.
Lamar cr doesnt deserve a ban, he should be on a level with copper. Often banned by the users, sometimes banned by the staff.
He's Elo banned because if he weren't almost every person to place #1 in the DT's would use this deck:
Robb, Randy, Jessie, Lamar Cr, Jackie, Rubie, Oxen, Nellie (27*) or something along those lines.
ELO isn't the only format that permabans affect, so please don't forget that! Remember those days when most top DT decks consisted of:
Robb, Randy, Jessie, Striker, Jackie, Rubie, Oxen, Nellie (26*)?
Yeah, same deck one difference, the realease of Lamar Cr who allows for even more flexibility as he can 2HKO with any 4 damage cards, like say Harold instead of Rubie who is altogether much more stable. This, along with other reasons already presented by previous persons, is why Lamar Cr will remained ELO banned.
Cant recall the times when rubie was used over zatman but I get your point
anyway, whats the difference to fuzz or to copper? Not like they are weaker in daily tournaments...
your argumentation is simply not valid because 5 stars are generally rarely used in daily tournaments unless they are ABSOLUTELY exceptional (like vickie cr, even though she obviously got ruined aswell).
and to add something: back in the old days (when there was no point penalty for elo banned cards) I used vickie cr in dt's to find that (without lyse teria cr) not even she was worth it. lower star cards from other clans were still superior when trying to win a dt. Leaders turned out to be ok because they enabled you to win fights with lowstar cards and thus ensured you some point gain. but a twohit from vickie cr+mona/zatman/nellie/jackie was rarely worth more then 12 points and never helped me to win a dt.
I never tried lamar cr back then, but im really PRETTY damn sure, he would be no different
he simply isnt much stronger then other nonbanned cards and the only reason hes banned is his status as a collector (atleast, im pretty sure of that).
Sorry Lamar is too big of a beast to be allowed into ELO
Lamar does not really have too many bad matchups. Vesus the vast majority of ELO legal cards he would either be a pill for pill fight, or he could actually win and still have a pill advantage. That is simply too good for a card with 8 damage.
Alec Cr is banned for the same reason -- he is weakened by SOA but he is 4 stars
Caelus is banned for a similar reason -- he typically needs to pill a bit more than Lamar to start gaining pill advantage
Vickie Cr is obvious stronger than Lamar in most cases
Copper can be more dominant but he has some horrendous match ups
Fuzz XU52 Angie Lou are all scary cards that have 8 damage and 2HKO potential with other cards.... however they are less likely to be able to get the 8 damage through AND maintain pill advantage.
If Vickie Alec or Lamar gets through and maintains pill advantage... the game is over. The other ELO legal 8 damage cards are less likely to pull that off.
therefore... Lamar remain banned
"the only reason hes banned is his status as a collector (atleast, im pretty sure of that)"
Lamar Cr was ELO banned on 05/01/08, and gained Cr status on 10/03/08, two months later. If you want proof you can check it here:
And he hasn't remained banned simply because he is a collector now, he remains banned because he is overpowered. Wee Lee was ELO banned on 01/04/07, 9 months earlier, is not a collector, and yet still remains ELO banned. Why? Because he is overpowered within his clan. Someone previously stated an extremely solid 11-12* Ulu half deck can be made that can be paired with another great 13-14* half deck.
In the same way, Lamar opens up his clan. He's just like Striker, if he were to be unbanned it would be an exact repeat of ELO before the summer bans. There'd be weeks with All Stars reigning supreme and weeks with the All Stars so crippled by bans its saddening. Even now, without the addition of Lamar Cr or Striker, the All Stars still usually face 2 character bans or more per ELO week.
There's more to an perma ELO ban than just the card itself. There's a reason Copper has never been ELO banned, his clan lacks the characters for an ELO dominant threat. Move Copper to the Junkz clan, and hold on a minute, he might just deserve an ELO ban. But sadly Sentinels 3* and 4* are lacking.
@fremmono montana has avola
Lamar being a collector is definetely part of why he is banned, it gives an unfair advantage to the rich. He is good no doubt, but not on par with vickie etc. DT doesn't matter this is Elo, where diversity is supposed to reign. Releasing lamar would limit that because it forces people to either pack in more Dr's so they can take the hit, or throw in more walls to block him. Even then there are few walls that can block without losing to many pillz. Like waster of time said, it is all about pillz. It will take you a lot of pillz to stop lamar. Not so much to stop fuzz.
"Lamar being a collector is definetely part of why he is banned, it gives an unfair advantage to the rich."
i think deathbychips has shown this to be false
Avola can also be a very scary card, but her damage is more vulnerable than the other base 8 damage cards out there -- and her one extra star for one extra damage when compared to Alec Cr is what makes her more balanced. Avola in the opponent's hand is a bit scarier than Alec in the opponents hand, but that one extra star makes the rest of the deck a tad weaker.
Deathbychips: what i ment was, only reason hes kept banned even though the competition of other really strong 5* in other clans that arent banned grew so much throughout the last releases is his status as a cr. Anyway (and this goes to both you and wasteroftime): Your argumentations make sense but still, thinking about how an allstars semideck could look like, I dont think it surpasses a semisentinel deck (to take these as an example).
lets see: Sentinel: Lehane,Copper,Melvin,tobbie (12* which is really lovely considering the many twohit options around copper)
Allstars: Jessie,Lamar cr,Marina,robb (14*, really lovely half and its especially nice because this is just one way to play it amongst many (unlike the sentinel version which is literally bound to the one described above more or less))
I dont see the huge difference in strength though and since you will rarely play either of the clans mono in elo (especially not now, without the leaders) I dont understand why sentinel is supposed to be less of a thread. To be strong in elo you just need 4 strong cards and sentinel certainly has those 4. Imo the semideck ive described above for sentinel is one of the strongest semi decks possible at the moment and if you ask me, its even stronger then the allstars half underneath it (considering the amount of stars used I mean), but thats a matter of opinion I guess.
What im trying to say is: Of course Lamar cr is strong but there are other cards that are just as strong in other clans. I doubt he would make allstars overpowered. He would just increase the amount of different possible ways to play them, which is a great thing imo.
The sentinel half deck you propes is probably one of the strongest 12* decks around for ELO except in one situation: In the face of SOA it crumples.
The AS halfdeck on the other hand remains completely competitive against SOA because it comes down to a battle of raw stats, which ASs usually win. Lamar Cr against SOA is just a killer 6/8 who brings everything to or below his level. Hes incredibly solid and he opens his clan. That's why he's permabanned.