22/30

AtomicBureau - Monday 28/09/2020, 18:48
Titan - Poker Face

Or better yet buff Gruber to Tyler level
Tyler does better against Djet than Gruber so he's better


Hmm more All Stars shifts I would do

Eyrton is a legacy card I wouldn't touch him, he's meant to suck, just like Sigmund

Weifang... 8/5 --> 8/6 protectionower, an 8/5 5* with a garbage ability is unacceptably bad

Sigurd... 6/8 attack +6 --> 6/8 attack +8, now he doesn't just tie with cards he outpills them by 1, he has terrible power don't let him have terrible ability too

Essie... 7/5 revenge:+3 power --> 7/6 revenge: +3 power this is ridiculous too, why can a 5* have 7/5 stats when its ability isn't even good? Agnes is 4*, 6/6 with +3 power AND her ability isn't even conditional.. why is a 4* stronger than this card. At least give her better base stats. And even at 7/6 she's still.. not really that good, but oh well.

Heartnett... 6/6 Reprisal:SOB --> 6/6 SOB uhhhh for a 4* SOB rare this is pretty garbage. Bridge is 7/6 same ability and he's not considered good. So how can a 6/6 rare be acceptable? Chlora is a common 6/6 with the same kind of bonus (+2 power vs -2 power) and she's SOB no condition. This makes way more sense, and he might actually see ELO use then

Asporov... 7/3 Support:+1 damage --> 7/4 Okay so Coby is 8/3 uncommon, same ability... why is Asporov just, worse? Alec MT is ELO banned but he has a stronger bonus and unlike Asporov, the clan is designed for mono only so support ability is not a weakness.

Cardigan... 6/2 SOA --> 6/3 SOA, like Oxo

23/30

AtomicBureau - Monday 28/09/2020, 18:51
Titan - Poker Face

I also think Stacey doesn't really make sense anymore because of Matilda... I guess Stacey is better against power exchange/copy opp power? But almost always Matilda is better, vs -attack, vs SOA, vs cancel power mod... hmm.

Also, fanny is 7/2 same ability while Stacey is 6/2. Maybe make it unique a bit, make Stacey 6/3

24/30

Morten - Monday 28/09/2020, 20:39
Colossus - Open Casket

Atomic before coming with some feedback to your ideas regarding all star shift, I will like to make one thing clear. Because of their bonus and how low it is, All stars rarely gets 8 power cards and will most likely never get 9 power. That's also why they most likely will never get a low power exchange cards and high power equalizer -power card. That also explain why they have so many 6 power cards.

Weifang. I do agree that his ability could be better, but his damage and power is perfect. Since his uncommon all star with 8 power , his not expected to have high damage. All stars can't have both things.

Sigurd was the first ever +attack all star got and therefore he was mostly a experimental card just like Karen, there was made to see how X ability work in all star.

Essie is in the same boat as Sigurd with the ability and Wolfgang with the stats. In revenge Essie is a 10/5 with -2 power. That's hard to fight against, so it makes sense to give her 5 damage.

Heartnett is protoge to Lamar. It's easy to see how they are related and how they are almost the same card with difrent stats. What made Lamar so stupidly strong back in the day was his damage and the fact that he are a sob. In order to make heartnett more balanced they gave her reprisal which on paper seems bad, but in game it works fine.

Well Coby is a sentinel where 8 power is more regular so that's why

25/30

Jaodorn - Monday 28/09/2020, 21:21
Colossus - BestSecret

Ogoun Kyu

0/6 Power Exchange

26/30

HERO Cr - Monday 28/09/2020, 21:31
Divinity - URBAN MADNESS

Scarlet, Manon, Armanda and ALL Mt's should be balanced to be at least playable for the BP or clintz bonuses.

Ideas:
Armanda MT: 9/3 no ability; not amazing but at least she has wall potential

Scarlet MT: 5/6 +3 power; Strong base stat potential but being one of the most expensive cards in game it seems more fitting.

Manon MT: 7/4 +3 damage; Strong base stat potential like Manon and being the most expensive card in game, it seems fitting.

27/30

AtomicBureau - Monday 28/09/2020, 21:31
Titan - Poker Face

I mean Morten you can say all these things but all stars bonus is no longer as ridiculous as it was in older ur. As you're also a big all stars player you definitely know the whole ratio thing of when minus and plus power are better, back when average power was closer to 6 the - power was monstrously strong but if you look at the last 100 cardsreleased the average is 7.5, this doesn't include abilities modifying power. It's not as op as before

Secondly 8 power being strong in all stars is true, but it's not any stronger than bangers or ulu watu. I'm not saying all stars should have tons of 8 power, I like that the clan is mainly higher damage lower power what I say is there should not be different standards in all stars than these other clans. Why is protection power on weifang 8/5? While in bangers, Fixit which is not a good card is 7/6 with protection power AND damage. Or other protection cards.. protection:bonus Serena is 8/6 in ulu watu. As you said either damage or ability should be stronger, I have no problem with stronger ability weifang , so either same ability as Fixit, or damage should go up.

Yes it was an experiment and it showed it's not that op, that's why I suggest in a shift it be buffed.

Essie is not that good man. Yes 10/5 with -2 power is hard to deal with, so is any good revenge based power modifier. But other similar cards are not as weak. Woolly is way better, Zoe way better and not conditional

28/30

AtomicBureau - Monday 28/09/2020, 21:35
Titan - Poker Face

Ik heartnett is mini lamar that's obvious. But not an argument against why he shouldn't be sob. Hell if he's mini lamar it makes more sense.

And now Lamar isn't op, it got unbanned and as power is so high now it doesn't have a big advantage. More importantly I already said above, chlora a common and efc allowed card has no reprisal. Other rare reprisal sobs have better stats. So why is heartnetts so bad? If chlora is not strong enough to dominate ELO heartnett being sob wouldn't either

Your last point does not address mine at all. I didn't even make asporov 8 power in my fix I increased his damage. Why is coby an 8/7 and asporov 7/7? Same damage but higher power? At least give asporov higher something do he can compare, since all stars is not a high base power clan I thought a damage buff makes more sense.

29/30

TCA_Heaven - Tuesday 29/09/2020, 13:58
Colossus - Time Conquers All

"Chlora is a common 6/6 with the same kind of bonus (+2 power vs -2 power)"
I'm going to call you out on this. All Stars bonus is NOT the same as Bangers / Ulu Watu bonus. -Power is objectively almost always better than +Power (except in attack manipulation high pill situations which are pretty niche as is) so it makes sense that Bangers would get the better-statted/ability cards. There's a reason why every 8 Power Dominion card is either busted or niche.

That said, I do think Heartnett could use maybe 1 extra damage. Reprisal slightly limits his options but it is not that bad a condition, and combined with the AS bonus he shoots down so many cards as is.

30/30

AtomicBureau - Tuesday 29/09/2020, 14:29
Titan - Poker Face

@TCA_HEAVEN

incorrect, -power is worse if the opponent has more than 2 power over the all star. e.g. heartnett vs van wesel on reprisal is a 6 vs 7 power, on courage its 4 vs 7 power. if heartnett was +power 8 vs 9 power and 8 vs 11 power are both far better scenarios.

Secondly, you mention attack manipulation being worse for All Stars at high pill only. Two things:
Attack manipulation is not a 'pretty niche' situation. 33% of clans have attack manipulation as a bonus. Around 20% of cards in the game have attack manipulation as an ability. This means almost half the cards in the game have attack manip, a big percentage of which is extremely strong attack manipulation. This is not a niche scenario.
You say its +power is better in high pill attack manipulation. This is correct. You say +power is only better in high pill attack manipulation. This is totally wrong. It's actually significantly better at low pill attack manip battles. It takes less pillz for a +power to overcome attack cards.

-Power does worse in low pill attack manip than high pill, in high pill its still worse but by a considerably smaller margin.

Here are the true advantages of -power vs +power

- POWER
1. Better if the opponent's power will be lower than yours after deduction and there is no attack manipulation
2. Often better if the opponent has power reduction of their own. E.g. 5 powered All Star vs Jairin. Matchup is 5 power versus 6 power, whereas with +2 power matchup is 5 power to 8 power

31/30

AtomicBureau - Tuesday 29/09/2020, 14:35
Titan - Poker Face

+ POWER
1. Better if the opponent's power will be higher than yours after addition, always
2. Better in low pill battles with attack manipulation even if the opponent's power is lower than yours
3. Better in any battle with attack manipulation if the opponent's power will be equal to or higher than yours
4. Better if the opponent has Protectionower


So now you see. Is -Power or +Power better? -Power is strong when a card has an ability or bonus that can synergise with it. E.g. attack manip + -power will make a card very strong. Double power reduction is very, very strong like Robb Mt or Aamir. And because of the low min of AS's bonus it is often the best solution against other power reducers like Spyke or Nameko. But is it objectively better? Hellllll no. Both of these bonuses have situations where they are better, and where they are worse. It's crazy to pretend that -power is somehow so much stronger than +power that it justifies nerfing another card's SOB to work half the time only.

Hmm, a higher damage Heartnett? I would prefer just straight SOB. Heartnett is designed after Lamar, so I think a 4* version of Lamar being 6/6 SOB makes more sense than a 6/7 reprisal:SOB. But again this is just a theoretical thread so its individual preference.